Committee on Public Housing, Oversight - Security Measures for NYCHA’s Vacant Apartments

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At this point in time, is anybody ready to approach the front desk? Is chair ready when you are?

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Good morning and welcome to today's committee hearing on public housing. I am CM Chris Banks, chair of the Public Housing Committee, and I am joined by my colleagues CM Marte and CM Elsie Encarnación. We are here today to conduct an oversight hearing on NYCHA's security practices for vacant apartments and to examine the authority's failure to properly secure those units. That failure has had real consequences, putting residents' safety at risk, delaying access to housing and undermining public trust.

NYCHA reports more than 6,000 vacant apartments while roughly 165,000 families remain on the waiting list, many waiting for years for housing. At a time of such high demand, leaving units unsecured is not just insufficient, it is irresponsible. It delays repairs, slows leasing and puts residents at risk.

Last month, the Department of Investigation confirmed these failures. Its report found that weak vacancy controls allowed hundreds of apartments to be illegally occupied. Published reporting has shown that more than 600 units were taken over by squatters while eligible families continue to wait without answers or options.

That raises serious questions including: one, how are units going from vacant to illegally occupied without NYCHA's knowledge? Two, why are there no consistent checks to confirm units remain secure? Three, where is the breakdown on the ground or at the leadership level? And four, most importantly, are residents truly being prioritized when it comes to safety? Right now, those answers are not clear and that is deeply concerning.

NYCHA does not consistently verify whether vacant units remain vacant, which should be the bare minimum. But even more troubling, the authority uses identical locks across multiple units, meaning a single compromised lock can put an entire building at risk. That simply defies common sense.

We all recognize the reality of decades of underfunding and disinvestment in public housing, but those challenges cannot excuse preventable failures or poor management decisions that put residents at risk. Limited resources demand stronger discipline, sharper oversight and stronger leadership. When 74 senior NYCHA executives, each earning more than $200,000 a year collectively accounting for nearly $15 million in salary, it is fair to ask whether that level of investment in leadership is producing results, especially when basic responsibilities like securing vacant units are not being met.

Public service is about accountability and accountability is measured by outcomes. What we are seeing here is not just an isolated lapse. It is a pattern of mismanagement that has become far too familiar at NYCHA. Basic operational controls are breaking down and the consequences are being felt not in the boardrooms but in the developments where residents already deal with enough instability.

When vacant apartments are left unsecured, when oversight is inconsistent and when preventable problems linger, that is a failure of management to do the jobs residents depend on them to do. And let's be honest about who bears the cost of that failure. The families living in NYCHA developments do not have the luxury of retreating to places like Tar Hill or Staten Island or North Fork Long Island or Westchester. When systems break down, they live with the consequences every day in Linden Boulevard Houses or on Fountain Avenue or on Surf Avenue.

That reality makes it clear why NYCHA cannot continue to do business as usual. This moment demands new eyes, fresh scrutiny and a willingness to challenge the entrenched practices that are clearly not working. Residents deserve leadership that looks at these problems with urgency and independence and that is willing to change course when failures persist.

When vacant units become magnets for illegal activity and when safety is compromised and when much needed housing sits unused, NYCHA leadership must act urgently. It is time for the authority to get its house in order, focus on the fundamentals and demonstrate true results, not assurances that resident safety and stewardship of public housing are its top priorities.

DOI has put forward clear recommendations and NYCHA has committed to implementing them and that is noted. But commitments alone are not enough. Execution is what matters. Today, this committee expects answers. We want to know how these recommendations will be implemented, what the timeline is, what staffing and oversight measures will be put in place and how accountability will be enforced when failures occur.

We will also examine how vacancy security is handled under PACT and the Public Housing Preservation Trust and whether those models are closing gaps or creating new ones. Finally, we will hear from residents and advocates who live in these conditions every day and their experience must guide how we move forward.

I want to thank my entire staff Michael Lambert, Kyle Graham along with my committee staff Jose Charles, Spencer Sierra Towns for the work in preparing today's hearing. I also want to thank her for her leadership and her support on this particular committee.

Now in keeping with tradition, we had obviously stepped away from that for our budget hearing. We will now move to allow a pre-panel and allow the residents from NYCHA to speak. Hopefully this time NYCHA you will sit and listen. You have no choice.

So now we will begin with Nigel Dupri, we have Ramona Fierra, Zulle Vasquez and Mete Scarcy. We are going to have a second panel for the pre-panel. So those folks who came in late just be prepared. We actually have two more seats. So we will do Emanuel Martinez. You may begin. Start out with you, Nigel.

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Good morning. Thank you everyone. Thank you to the Council and committee for allowing me to speak today. My name is Nigel Dupri. I am a proud resident of Brookdale Housing in East New York.

Just hold on one minute. Each NYCHA resident or member will get five minutes. If we could have the clock correspond with that. Thank you. You may begin.

Once again, good morning. Thank you to the committee for allowing me to give my testimony today. My name is Nigel Dupri, proud resident of Brookdale Housing and I also serve on Community Board 18. There are a couple of topics that I want to bring up today if the committee would allow me within my time.

First of all, I want to say speaking with the tenant association president this morning, there are about 100 vacant apartments in my development. We know we have a squatter problem. We know we have a lot of tenants who requested transfers that have not been transferred yet as far as seniors with safety apartments or people who dealt with disputes in the community and want to relocate from that building. Those are some of our main issues as far as vacancy goes.

Another main issue in our community is mold and leaks. Recently we had a contract company that came in and did the lead program where they drilled in the wall. After they left, we faced a lot of leakage but it was like no one was taking responsibility. Not NYCHA, not the contractors. They were just pointing fingers at each other until they were gone and we are still dealing with that issue.

Another issue we have as far as our development and Brookdale Housing, we are actually facing a shelter that is being built on 108th Street, which is a men's shelter. We already have a rehab center on Farragut Road right next to the train station. They already have a shelter right across the street from it which is a family shelter. So now we are facing 108th Street a men's shelter being built. So that actually surrounds our community and we understand people need places to go and shelters are an option but to have so much that is affected right across the street from our community is unacceptable.

So I leave my time and I appreciate the opportunity to speak and thank you.

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Thank you for your testimony.

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Good morning. My name is Guati Naru and my colonial name is Ramona. I am the founder of Safe Section 9 and a tenant from Mitchell Houses in the South Bronx. I am delivering this testimony on behalf of my neighbors and our members.

At a time when our shelters overflow and families struggle to afford rent, we should all be angry that NYCHA is warehousing apartments. And what NYCHA is doing is warehousing. It is a tactic used by multiple housing authorities around the country. We saw it in Chicago before Cabrini crumbled. We saw it in St. Louis before Pruitt-Igoe imploded. It is strategic. It is purposeful. It is diabolical. It is slumification disguised as ineptness.

NYCHA will tell you that the unoccupied units are a result of lead abatement and internal transfers creating a backlog. This is not true. There are 6,800 unoccupied units at NYCHA because their organizational plan deprioritized their original mission. Instead of providing safe homes and communities that support upward mobility, NYCHA has transformed into a real estate broker.

NYCHA used to employ enough DC9 glazers, DC9 painters, SEIU auto mechanics, UBCJ carpenters, IUOE oilers, IBT roofers, IBT plasterers, CWA administrative managers to provide adequate services and rehab our units. Now they do not. Instead, they contract out critical roles, making rehabilitation more expensive and lengthier.

According to Daniel in the Instagram post from yesterday, he is explaining that abatement is a really lengthy process, right? But research will tell you that it takes 3 to 11 days to do an apartment. To that, we can add permitting, clearance and testing. So let's say 20 days. But it takes NYCHA four to six months.

Yes, NYCHA is putting these units through extensive needed rehabilitation, but they do so by hiring contractors to fill the voids left by shrinking union labor force. Depending on development, NYCHA must contract a plumber, carpenter, painter or plasterer for each job. That is the root of the delay. NYCHA plays Jenga with these contractors while units remain vacant or taken over by squatters. This deteriorates our quality of life and endangers tenants.

But not every squatter is a threat. In December of 2024, a mom moved into an empty unit at Ingersoll Houses. She and her daughter were there for 4 months before management noticed. She left the shelter out of fear. This story is heartbreaking because it demonstrates the systemic impact of this slumification. Working families on waiting list and in shelters earning less than $32,000 a year. AMI units do not support that income level for working poor New Yorkers. Only NYCHA does.

These empty units are not monitored or secured by management. So squatters move in like they did into the unit at Mitchell Houses and the residents try to alert management, report it to the police, call the police, find overdose deaths, find blood in their hallway, record all this information, get support from maintenance staff and it is not resolved in a timely manner. So yeah, some bring crime, but others bring hope.

So what do we do? We call on the New York City Council. Since Zeron has not been supportive of public housing, we are hoping that you will hold him accountable to these requests. We ask that you institute a moratorium on privatization via project-based Section 8, which is RAD PACT and the Housing Preservation Trust. It is obvious that NYCHA can use this time to assess their performance, recalibrate and refocus on their core responsibility, which is managing Section 9 housing for New York City.

The moratorium should be reliant on an impact study conducted in similarity to what was requested by Congresswoman Maxine Waters back in 2023 when she first noted the problems with this program. We wish to have a new organizational plan. This last plan, which was put in place in 2020, was denounced fiercely by tenants and was adopted in spite of our testimonies and our objections. According to the elders in public housing in New York City, the best plans are found between 1965 and 1970.

And we encourage you to support NYCHA's growth. You can finish. Thank you. We encourage you to support NYCHA's growth, but ensure that hiring focuses on union personnel for roles that improve tenants' quality of life. That would look like shifting the $663 million that Zeron wants to give to PACT towards public housing. That number only gets you 22,000 project-based Section 8 vouchers for one year. One year. Instead, you could rehabilitate Wagner Houses, which is 22 buildings with 2,100 units for the next 100 years of family stability.

We ask that you support the repeal of the stock transfer tax, which would bring us $2 billion, that you allocate 10% from the Fair Share Act and that you work with folks in Albany and in DC to make sure that the Make Billionaires Pay Their Fair Share Act brings us $22 billion annually for public housing.

In closing, we urge this committee and Speaker Mannon to recognize the opportunity that NYCHA represents. As a city, we are in fiscal crisis. And this crisis has made it clear that the private market will never provide housing that is decent, safe and affordable. This is why public housing was created in this city. After decades, we have been investing in band-aids, subsidies and tax schemes that temporarily house those left behind by market rate rents. Meanwhile, NYCHA families have benefited from stability, resources and benefits envied by those in the private market, desired by Zeron and CIA for them. It is time to provide safe, truly affordable, protected and vibrant homes and communities to every New Yorker. It is time to invest in Section 9.

Thank you for your testimony. Next.

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Good morning, Chair Banks and members of

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the public housing committee. My name is Matin Sarsy. I serve as the co-chair of the housing land use and zoning committee for Manhattan Community Board 9. And I also am an employee of the New York City Housing Authority. However, my testimony today is in my own personal capacity and the views expressed in the statement are my own and do not reflect any official position or policy. That being said, when it comes to vacancies, this is a personal issue for me. I have been working around public housing for about 13 years now. And almost 10 years ago when my father first needed help with applying for housing he had asked me you know what can I do to help him secure that? And I had to look at him in the face and told him listen even if I was CEO of NYCHA I cannot get you an apartment. That is just not how it works and you are going to have to wait. This past month he just got his call in. And while he did not get accepted into Section 9, he did get accepted into Section 8. I am no one to tell anyone, you know, whether, you know, what to choose for their own housing, despite how I might feel for it. But the crazy thing is in the 13 years that I have done this, I have actually never seen anyone get housing. I have helped people stay in housing, like, but that was that was a new experience for me. It kind of reminds me why I am in this and realistically why this mission for public housing is important.

That being said, when it comes to security, part of it is I think we have to look at a much more comprehensive strategy because we are looking at a symptom. We are not really looking at the overall systemic problem. And part of that coming from City Council myself, I served council member as his housing specialist, we had seven public housing communities in our district. And when it came to security, one of the things that I know we had to do back then, it is much different now. Now you have capital project liaison. Now you have a variety of people that you could work with at NYCHA in a different way, but back then we had relationships with our resident associations. And so Brian could tell you almost famously how I would show up to almost every capital project meeting. And just really trying to get a feel for what kind of challenges NYCHA would have, what kind of challenges residents would face and then how we as representatives could help mitigate some of these things. And one of the things that I found almost fascinating was and a huge shout out to the capital projects team like they do a fantastic job and when they lay out their needs when they talk about their challenges and you are able to kind of work with them you could really see some really interesting results.

And so I will use one of this as an example. Very Street South Ninth Street houses in Brooklyn. Attending a capital projects meeting. We had allocated some funding for security cameras and meeting with the engineers. You know, they looked at what we wanted and they said, "Listen, we can do what you want or we can use the money you currently have allocated and we could set up the infrastructure so that whatever funding you get in the future is much cheaper and we will make sure we give you estimates." In some cases, depending on what is going on in development, we were able to reallocate certain funding amounts so that we could move capital projects at a much quicker pace. And of course, if you are working with Brian, he will let you know how that might happen. And it just kind of created a really good sense of being able to not only address capital project needs, but also look at safety and security as a whole where and again shout out to the capital projects team. They developed a NYCHA connected communities initiative. Love the team there. They really helped shape how I rethought community centers and how nonprofits who may be receiving funding from the public sector can work with NYCHA to develop those projects while allowing for NYCHA capital projects to focus on you know their high priority needs which is the roofings, facade work, the things that would affect the insides.

That being said, in doing so, I think throughout the whole portfolio, if we are looking at common areas and community centers, things that are really high social value, impact, you are looking at about $7.8 billion if you were to address those things just through social impact. And you know, we are talking about something systemic in which there is a system that allows folks to feel comfortable enough to walk into these situations and do what they have to do to put a roof over their head whether we agree with how it is happening or not. But thank you for the time. You may finish if you need a little more a minute. I will submit the written. Thank you. Thank you kindly. Next. Thank you for your testimony. Next. Hi, good morning. My name is Zul Velasquez. I am the tenant association president at Jacob Riis Houses. In my capacity, I want to say that the vacancies are a problem, but I know for sure at least two people have identified, not specific apartments, but Jacob Riis does have apartments that are being illegally resided and occupied. Sorry. And it is sad because I came from fighting against the privatization to becoming the TA president, still not being able to like

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fully sit down with my management team because of the whole situation with the TA at Jacob Riis. First, they interrupted the election, and that is true. You know, they illegally interrupted that to do the RAD vote. And then because of our 30-year bylaws, they we have nine positions, two chaplain that are illegal, separation between church and state. There is a big problem with this. And I only bring that up because though this is a hearing for vacancies, these issues that I could be addressing with management and working with the TA to deal with address I cannot do.

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You know it is real unfortunate and it created like this situation where you know there is a break in communication or even like leadership building among the TA because now they are so upset that it has taken so long and now you know they are upset about things I even did as president-elect like for an example get a grant for air purifiers for the most contaminated buildings in Riis like really ridiculous but I will say this I hope it gets better but with these keys it is also a big problem. The keys open up every single space. For my space particularly, people have keys to it, you know. From the old TA to the new TA, they left things behind. I thought they did not leave me nothing. I am like, wow, that is really bad because as even as a souvenir, they took the sign, you know? I am like, what is going on, right? No

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computer, no nothing. How did they conduct business? Well, apparently they left computer, a lot of stuff, and it was taken. So, who took it? These common keys. So you would see either NYCHA took my stuff that was supposed to be there for the residents for the TA to support the residents or people who random people who have these keys. I reported it, you know, and now it is like, okay, so what is going to happen? There is a sewer package coming into the room. A lot of stuff got damaged. I am asking what is going to happen to be replaced with my stuff. Nothing still. But guess what happened? Even after that, stuff is still getting stolen. So I all the stuff that I did as TA elect I had to throw away. Not only did I throw it away, they still stealing stuff. The people who either are apparently coming to clean the spot up or people who are coming from outside with the key. I have asked for it to be replaced. It has not been changed. And you know that causes a big problem. And I see residents actually open I have seen them open the gate to just let their dogs go into areas that I guess that they have plans for infill, but we have plans for a garden and we have plans for other things for those spaces. And it is really sad because my safety and security, you know, the other day I came into the TA room and I left the cart outside and I went through the whole build, the whole site to make sure no one was hiding in the bathroom or in any of the closed rooms because I do not know, you are stealing stuff.

Someone is stealing stuff, you are getting in. If you are getting in or NYCHA staff is doing it, you know. So, what is really happening here, you know, and it is really sad. It is really it is really sad to see. And I would like to also say like why is it that the number of vacancies like it almost seems like it does not go down. Nothing is going down. The price of debt is not going down. The units is not going down. Nothing is going down. If you have already done RAD for x amount of years, you have gotten some money, why is it that these numbers have not gone down? But also, I think there has been some type of merger with Section 8 and Section 9. And I will keep saying that because it makes no sense. I had a family member who was Section 8 eligible, applied, waited 13 years, got approved. When I got this letter for this person, it clearly say, you know, something that was not the authority. Somehow residents anyone who qualifies for Section 8 is getting a letter from housing, not from not from what is it? Not from any other agency. Is the authority that is handling these these actual apartments, these vouchers and where they putting the people, right? You can go. You need more time. No. Yes. One more minute to wrap up. Also, I am a cab driver. I am a cab driver.

And I have had I have gotten customers in my car that say that they are being contacted from the authority saying, "Hey, you are at you have this voucher and you are utilizing it here, but you can come to Section 9." So, they are trying I think what is happening is that they are trying to convert within and only use Section 8 residents and convert them, change them and bring them over to public housing to convert them from within. That is what I think is occurring.

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Thank you for your testimony. Next,

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Good morning and thank you for this opportunity to speak on this panel. So, my name is Manny Martinez. I am the resident council president for South Jamaica Houses, also the Queens South District chair for that fraudulent organization. And so speaking about vacant apartments, securing vacant apartments are an issue under NYCHA Managed Public Housing because there exists a broader issue of trespassers lodging in our staircases, basement, rooftops, and at times in front of our apartment doors. Ever so mindful of the opportunities of unsecure vacant apartments. NYCHA's policy on public safety is similar to an arts and crafts class for the highly paid, unmotivated, and disinterested. You do not live there, and it does not affect you. So, give it your best shot. Keys to empty apartments, slop rooms, and basement back doors circulate like candy on Halloween amongst the trespasser population that has become an additional ghost population living in public housing's basement, staircases, rooftops, and unsecured vacant apartments. At a federal monitor's CAC meeting in November 2025, NYCHA's public safety department informed us of what the NYPD and district attorneys will not do and reduce NYCHA's efforts to discrete walking tours that mobilizes HRA lobbies to our common space areas. A practice that further enables this population's lodging stability in our common areas.

NYCHA has no effective policy to address this because NYCHA has been weaponized against public housing residents by New York City and New York State.

For example, RAP funding for the pandemic implemented in the 2021 2022 session under S2742 stated under section 60310. An individual, family, or household shall not be eligible for this program if they live in housing or in housing owned or managed by a public housing authority. Prior to that state legislation being ratified, the US Treasury released an FAQ that was speaking directly to public housing and other federally subsidized housing rents that due to the disproportionate effect such as refusal could have on populations intended to receive assistance under the ERRA and the potential for such a practice to violate applicable law, including Title 6, Section 504, in the Fair Housing Act. Currently, NYCHA has a $500 million rental arrears tail that has followed it since then. In this spirit, NYCHA has used this policy to create its own brand of an unlawful resident organization that is recognizable by NYCHA's policy and NYCHA's policy alone. A policy in complete contradiction to public housing residents exclusive federal right to establish independent representation through resident organizations at their own discretion. NYCHA's policy creation also obstructs public housing's residents federal rights to participate in housing policy beyond an advisory role. And this is the legislation that part 964 regulations reinforce with terms as actively participate and advise and assist.

When discussing resident councils, imagine policies that create higher public safety standards and that address actual experiences of safety concerns in vacant apartments constructed in partnership with the population most affected. Public housing residents the way Congress intended when those rights were established. And so I am asking for the public housing committee to take this into consideration, start doing some audits on NYCHA's implementation of policy and how it aligns with public housing's rights. I thank you for this time. Take care.

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Thank you for your testimony. That concludes this panel. Thank you. Now we will move to the next panel. We have Reginald Bowman, Carla Hollinger, Reverend Kevin McCall, and Christina Chase. All right, you may begin your testimony. Started, Mr. Bowman.

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Good morning. Because I testified at the previous hearing, I am going to keep this very brief and I am going to really focus on the topic of the hearing so that I can stay within the framework of my time frame. Today we are facing a crisis of mismanagement and neglect in public housing. I think that the chair of the committee has made it quite clear that NYCHA is being mismanaged and it is a crisis and it is an ongoing crisis. As someone who served for many years on several different incarnations of resident leadership and testified at over 100 hearings, NYCHA's problem is mismanagement and needing to have someone in some group of people in those seats that actually know how to run an institution of this magnitude. Over 6,700 NYCHA apartments sit vacant while more than 165,000 families remain on waiting lists for housing. These units are sitting empty for nearly a year on average, not because they are not needed, but because of bureaucratic delays, underfunding, and failed management systems. At the same time, vacant apartments have become a public safety risk, and the people who have testified before me have made that quite clear. This is unacceptable. Every time I come to this office and I look around, I see the progress of private sector high-rises. And NYCHA sits here at 250 Broadway and still does not know how to manage a portfolio that they have had for a number of years.

And again, I must reiterate, it is because of the people who sit in those management seats who are overpaid and underqualified. We must treat every vacant unit as an emergency housing opportunity, especially during this time that we are facing a housing crisis in this city and indeed the state and the nation.

My recommendations, and I will submit these recommendations in writing, establish an emergency vacancy takeover task force. Something has to be done now to take over this problem because the more we talk about it in real time, the worse it gets. Establish a 90-day mandate to return vacant units to occupancy and deploy dedicated repair teams only focused on vacancies. One of the previous people who testified talked about the fact that the workforce of NYCHA has been reduced to a let us contract it out to private sector people and so they are not really addressing the operational needs of the facilities that we live in. Capital funding allocation for turnovers. Allocate target funding. Create a projected budget timeline. Eliminate shared keys and implement unit specific locking systems. Decentralize bureaucratic bottlenecks. Reduce centralized approval delays that stall repairs. Transparency and reporting. I could go on with this, but Mr. Chair and those who are on the panel, NYCHA needs to be managed correctly. This is the 26th year of the 21st century and we are talking about AI and everything else and we are watching this city on one level grow and we are seeing the institutions that have maintained our city and its framework and its infrastructure deteriorate especially for those of us who are living in the public housing community.

So, I suggest and recommend that in addition to this document that I am going to submit to the City Council for review that serious consideration be taken in examining the abilities and skills of the people who are in the NYCHA executive department on down. If people do not know how to manage the executive department and manage a facility of this magnitude and there are plenty of examples of the successful management of this type of an institution then they need to be not just removed but a seriously well-thought-out professional team needs to be put together to make sure that the management of the New York City Housing Authority is in the hands of competent people who know how to run this type of institution. And with that, I have the same testimony that I had submitted before, but it is not on topic. I will also submit that. And hopefully we will have this year a successful gathering of elected officials and residents together and put together a public policy statement that is going to reinstitute Section 9 funding and put back into place the things for the New York City Housing Authority in funding and in management that are necessary. Thank you.

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Thank you for your testimony.

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Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity to speak here. My name is Carla Hollenssworth. I am a resident at Stuyvesant Gardens One. I am also the secretary of the tenants association. And just one thought, there is no accountability and there is never going to be any because there are no consequences. The only consequences are visited on the residents. The only accountability that we have seen is none. But to speak on the vacant apartments, we have gotten many calls from residents who one resident there are two women who live on the floor and there are two vacant apartments across the hall from them and those vacant apartments were left open with the doors ajar. They called management and nothing happened. So after a week, they called the tenants association and we were able to speak with management and eventually get somebody over there to lock the doors. That is just one building. There are other buildings. We all have a vacancy in our buildings over there. And we are all suffering because there are people who are sleeping on roofs while we do not have intercoms so that we can buzz people in. So the workers are actually leaving the doors open so they can gain access to the building. And people get in the building, they go on the roof, they have their little zippered bag with their pillows and their comforters and everything. They get real comfortable up on the roofs.

And now it is at a point where management is telling the tenants association, they are taking pictures of things and what is it that we are supposed to do? We supposed to go across these people, it is not really clear, and at the end of the day, we have residents who were supposed to have reasonable accommodations and they do not get the reasonable accommodations.

So, we have a resident who is stuck in a nursing home until she can get an apartment on a lower floor. She is 90 years old. She cannot walk up to the fourth floor anymore. She went out, she went into rehab for a moment. Now, I hear that all of her belongings are gone. So, where did they go to? Who took them? Then underneath me there is a vacancy and there was a big deal about them trying to illegally evict a resident suffering from dementia. Her family came and got her which they are trying to work out her situation and get her home care and everything and the next thing you know they go to get some of her belongings for her. They could not get into the apartment. Now there is a padlock on the apartment. They say that she is coming back, but she has been gone for two years now, and these things are happening all over. And we are a small development. We have 331 apartments. So, I can only imagine what is going on at the larger developments, but when people call you at 2 o'clock in the morning and say they are afraid, can we get somebody to come over because they think they hear a noise in the apartment across the hall that is supposed to be vacant, but the door is ajar? And it is left that way by management or the maintenance workers or whomever was in the apartment. And it is happening all over.

We do not know what to do. We have been trying our best to complain to whomever we are supposed to complain to, but a lot of the time we are ignored. Nobody hears us. I do not know what else to say. I mean, there are so many different things going on. But it was my understanding that this hearing was about the safety of the vacant apartments and they are very unsafe and the residents are not feeling safe and it is very stressful for our seniors. We have a lot of seniors. We have a senior building, but we have seniors in every single building of Stuyvesant One. Some of them in their 80s and older. And they have a right to feel comfortable and safe where they live. I have residents who do not even want to go outside unless, are you going shopping? Yes. What do you need? Oh, could you just come with me to the supermarket? Fine. No problem. I will do that. But when you have lived that long, you should have some peace in your life. And when people are telling you that they are going to improve your quality of life, it should be improved. And it is not being improved at all.

Thank you for your testimony. Next.

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Good morning, Chairman Banks, member of

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this committee. Good morning, everyone besides NYCHA execs. My name is Reverend Kevin McCall. I have been an advocate for NYCHA for many years. I come today not just as an advocate, but a voice for NYCHA residents who are tired of being disrespected by a system that was built to serve them. Let me be very clear from the beginning. What is happening in NYCHA right now is not just mismanagement. It is systematic neglect. We are in the middle of a housing crisis in New York City. Families are sleeping in shelters. Working people cannot afford rent. Seniors are waiting for years for stable housing. In the middle of all this, NYCHA is sitting on thousands of vacant apartments. Not dozens. Not a small backlog, but thousands. This is not normal. This is unacceptable. This is a complete failure of leadership because every single one of those vacant apartments could be housing a family tonight. NYCHA does not care. Every single one of those doors remain closed while those on the outside continue to sleep on the floors of NYCHA.

And let us not talk about what is happening in apartments that sit empty. They just do not stay vacant. They become targets. Targets for illegal activity, targets for gangs, targets for drug use and violence. So while NYCHA delays repairs and drags its feet, residents are forced to live next door to dangers. There are so many residents that want to be inside housing apartments, but they do not care to fill them with people. Vacant apartments in NYCHA are creating unsafe conditions for every people that are supposed to protect. This is not just a housing issue. This is a public safety crisis.

Now, here is where it becomes even more unacceptable. While this is happening, while families are waiting, while units sit empty, while crime fills the gaps of neglect, NYCHA executives are being paid six figure salaries, some making well over $200,000 a year. So, I ask again, what are we paying for? Because it is not urgency, it is not effectiveness, it is definitely not results. You cannot justify those salaries while presiding over a system where apartments sit empty in the middle of a housing crisis. You cannot call it leadership when developments are deteriorating and residents are living in fear. You cannot continue to ask NYCHA residents to be patient while they have already been waiting for years. This is not about personal attacks. It is about accountability. Because in any other system, public or private, if you fail at the core mission, there are consequences. But in NYCHA, it seems like failure is tolerated and residents are the ones who pay the price. This has to end and it has to end now.

How long will these vacant apartments remain empty? What repairs are needed? Who is responsible for the delay? We need to have some real deadlines and real accountability from the top on down. If these repairs need to happen, then these apartments need to be filled immediately. Residents of NYCHA do matter. They matter as much as any other New Yorker, they deserve safe housing. They deserve dignity. They deserve respect. And as of right now, they are not getting it because vacant apartments in a housing crisis is not bad policy, it is a moral disgrace. Every empty apartment is a broken promise. Every delayed decision and every day without action fails the people.

So I will close with this. NYCHA does not have a shortage of buildings. It does not have a shortage of need. What it does have is a shortage of accountability and NYCHA needs to stop doing things for optics. You want to talk about scaffolding that is inside, you get happy because scaffolding is being taken down while vacant apartments are not being filled. We have to understand these issues. We have to understand that we have to stand on principle. There was a man by the name of Dr. Martin Luther King who stood in this nation and declared that housing was not just a structure but it was a right tied to dignity, justice and humanity. He marched not just for the right to vote, but for the right to live somewhere safe. He marched for fair housing in cities that shut doors on our people. And out of that struggle was the Fair Housing Act of 1968, a promise that this country will no longer tolerate discrimination on how they live. But I stand here today that that promise has not been fulfilled by NYCHA. We are not dealing with just discrimination. We are dealing with abandonment. We are dealing with a system that has turned its back on the very people that it was meant to protect. So when you talk about Dr. King, that is the dream that he spoke of. But today in NYCHA, we are living in a nightmare. A nightmare deferred. Thank you.

(00:52:29)

Thank you for your testimony. >> Turn on the mic.

(00:52:34)

Thank you. Good morning. My name is Christina Chase. You may know me as an advocacy coordinator at Take Root Justice or as part of my community board in Queens, but I am here specifically and only to represent myself and the Ravenswood Resident Association where I serve as second vice president. First and foremost, the DOI report, the real

(00:53:00)

Crime is not this few hundred people who took over vacant apartments. The real crime is the six to 7,000 vacant units that are sitting there in the first place, especially when we just experienced a winter where people died because they had nowhere to go. So, I am not necessarily here to criminalize those folks, although we do need structures of accountability and security measures to be addressed. I am here just to really share what is happening at Ravenswood and just in my own experience as a board member first of like I signed up for resident watch years ago. I have not received a word. I have been waiting not a word. I looked at the committee report and resident watch is mentioned as if it is something that is functioning and working but it is not and it has not for years. So that can't be a resolution especially if resident engagement is not even doing the support it is supposed to for the TAs to organize and coordinate the resident watch. So that is not even an avenue that is real and happening. And please if anyone else has a contrary experience please tell me but my resident watch has not been working for years.

But moreover because there is no resident watch there is no avenue for residents to report what is happening. It is only up to employees. And so if we tell someone, there is no guarantee that they are even going to bring it to management. But moreover, there is no paper trail for us to ensure that our report is even going to be recognized and investigated. I myself on my own building on my own floor have witnessed a tenant be abused and assaulted and pushed out of her own home and now her apartment is someone else is living in there and I know he is not on the lease. I have witnessed the assault. There is no security and I know that he is not on lease and I do not even know where she is. But it is just mind boggling to me. And I know how he came in. You know how he came in? He broke the door. He opened the door and my lobby door has been broken for months. And the fact that we do not have secure doors, we do not even our back door is always propped open for the workers or even for the tenants themselves. There is no real security. And the fact that someone can be scared out of their own home. I have no idea where she is. I do not even know if she is alive.

So, it is real. And that is not even to mention the strangers that literally sleep in front of my door on the floor in front of the elevator in the staircase. And I do not want to come for them because they need a home. Everyone deserves a home. But there is no security. If anyone can just walk in any you can come to my building right now and walk through the back door. It is propped wide open. Even if I move the rock that someone put there, it is going to be propped open again. But it is real. And the fact of the matter is I am told by management to call NYPD and call NYPD when banging on the door. By the time they come, they are gone. They told me to call tell NYCHA. There is a back and forth back and forth of people pointing fingers and there is no accountability.

Moreover, as a TA member, resident engagement is so disorganized and so messed up that we have had in my four years, we have had at least four coordinators. Turnover is so high that we cannot even get the work done and the support we need. And because of that, every TA I know has had terrible elections. I do not know one board who has had an efficient, smooth election. I do not know if it is intentional or if it is just that terribly organized, which is really hard to believe. But we do not have that support and the residents are being disenfranchised as we speak. We still do not we are still having difficulty getting a few members on our board. Our district council of presidents has not met in over a year or maybe even two at this point. So, I cannot even find out what is going on at the other TAs in Queens.

But again because of that there is no way to create the structures of accountability we need for NYCHA to ensure the security measures are there and it is mind boggling to me that the report both DOI and the committee report did not include hey why do we not ensure that lobby doors lock and stay locked why do we not ensure that all the back doors are not propped why do we not ensure that all tenants have keys that are obviously on the lease so that they do not have to break the door in the first place. None of those were included. And lastly, it is mind boggling to me to see hundreds of millions of dollars being earmarked for RAD and other section 18 conversions when those are the same millions of dollars that can go to these vacant apartments in the first place. And then I would be remiss to mention that a lot of our nonprofit service providers are not really doing the programming that we need when it comes to creating a culture of safety that police cannot and will never be able to offer. And that comes with workshops on intimate partner violence, learning how to navigate when you have had an assault. All the kinds of programming to ensure real community safety that NYPD will never be able to provide. We need that back. We do not have that anymore. Thank you.

(00:58:32)

Thank you for your testimony. That concludes this brief panel. Next, we will have testimony from NYCHA and I will turn it over to the committee counsel to give the affirmation. And also too, we have been joined by CM Restler and also CM Mealy who stepped out, but she will be back.

(00:59:57)

Daniel Kiss, deputy general counsel for housing litigation at New York City Housing Authority.

(01:00:03)

Daniel Green, executive vice president for property management operations for New York City Housing Authority.

(01:00:10)

You may begin your testimony.

(01:00:16)

Chair Chris Banks, members of the Committee on Public Housing, and other distinguished members of the City Council, NYCHA residents, community advocates, and members of the public. Good morning. I am Daniel Green, NYCHA's executive vice president of property management operations. I am pleased to be joined by Deputy General Counsel Dan Kiss and also Chief Gallagher. NYCHA is a vital resource of affordable housing in our city and we strive to ensure that as many New Yorkers as possible can benefit from safe, stable, and truly affordable homes. At the same time, the community's safety and well-being is another top priority which drives our work. Thank you for this opportunity to discuss NYCHA's collaboration with our law enforcement partners to promote security around vacant apartments, which we have made progress with in recent years, as well as our efforts to turn over apartments as expeditiously as possible to provide residents with safe and healthy homes. A key indicator of our progress in this area is that we have increased the number of move-ins by 76% since 2023.

As a landlord, our ultimate goal is to provide safe and secure homes for the hundreds of thousands of families we serve. Our approach to promoting safe communities is multifaceted and involves three core elements. Investing in infrastructure that enhances building security such as CCTV cameras, exterior lighting, and layered access controls at building entrances, collaborating with law enforcement agencies such as NYPD, the New York City Department of Investigation or DOI, local district attorney offices and the Mayor's Office of Criminal Justice, and partnering with residents through initiatives such as resident watch to collaboratively address public safety. Over 1,000 residents participate in the volunteer resident watch program helping to patrol their developments and foster safety, security and community pride in collaboration with property management staff.

NYCHA, including our office of safety and security is in constant communication with NYPD. Nine dedicated NYPD police service areas or PSAs cover NYCHA developments. Additionally, more than 21,000 CCTV cameras are installed at NYCHA developments citywide. We have taken significant steps in recent years to ensure safety around our vacant apartments, and we have been working with our law enforcement partners, including the DOI and NYPD, for the past several years to address security concerns. In fact, DOI's recent report on vacant apartments resulted from this partnership. Much of its data collected during the course of our work together. And thanks to this close working relationship between NYPD's housing bureau's reclamation unit or the HBRU and NYCHA's law department and property management, about 635 vacant apartments have been recovered from unauthorized occupants since 2023.

We acknowledge that there is always more to do and more measures to take. And so we have accepted all five of the recommendations outlined in the DOI report and we will continue to work with DOI and NYPD to foster safety and security for the entire community. The DOI recommendations that we will implement involve conducting monthly inspections of vacant apartments, evaluating the feasibility of alternate lock sets or security technologies, requiring resident watch volunteers to report suspected unauthorized inhabitants or illegal activities. Immediate verification by property management of any such reports from resident watch. And finally, deploying additional funding we receive to reduce the time it takes to refurbish vacant apartments.

I would like to now provide some clarity on why there are vacant apartments at NYCHA as well as our efforts to turn over apartments that are safe and free of environmental hazards as quickly as possible. Out of NYCHA's approximately 146,000 public housing apartments, there are currently 6,294 vacant apartments as of the time of this testimony with turnover in progress plus 612 units that are matched meaning that they have been another a new resident has been selected for them. This equates to a 4.7% vacancy rate which is lower than the national public housing vacancy rate of 6.06%. NYCHA has substantially increased the number of move-ins. In 2025, there were 4,472 move-ins into the apartments, which represents a 76% increase over 2023, just two years ago. And we have reduced the time it takes to turn over a vacant apartment, which is currently 340 days, down from 395 days in March 2025.

Despite the lack of federal support and the need to constantly balance competing priorities, we do prioritize apartment turnover work. And in doing so, we have truly made strides to foster safety and healthy communities by addressing, for instance, the long entrenched issue of lead-based paint in our units. The turnover work includes the full removal of environmental hazards like lead and asbestos as well as the completion of vital repairs and renovations after a tenant leaves. Residents stay in their NYCHA apartments for an average of 25 years. So apartment turnover is a key and necessary opportunity to complete the critical and required health and safety work in the apartment as well as the skilled trade work which is done by NYCHA staff such as carpentry, plastering and painting and the work needed is usually considerable. The total capital needs across NYCHA's portfolio amount to approximately $80 billion.

It takes up to 6 months to get an apartment ready for a new tenant. Local Law 1 requires landlords to perform lead abatement of certain components upon apartment turnover. But we go even further. NYCHA's policy is to abate all components to make an apartment lead safe for the next resident based on New York City strict lead paint standard. When an apartment turns over, we conduct a lead inspection if an apartment has not already been inspected for lead. And if lead paint is identified, the apartment is then scheduled for abatement. Additionally, an asbestos investigation is performed at apartments with damaged floor tiles or textured ceilings. Compliance with a variety of lead and asbestos abatement related requirements and regulations is not only time consuming but it is also costly. The average cost to turn over an apartment is about $52,000. $25,000 for asbestos abatement, $17,000 for lead abatement, and about $10,000 give or take for general renovations. However, the time and the cost involved in apartment turnover means that every resident who will move into a refreshed apartment that is safe and free of environmental hazards.

Another reason for vacancies is that we fulfill thousands of resident requests each year to transfer to another apartment for a variety of reasons, including domestic violence and other emergency situations. On average, nearly 60% of our move-ins each year are from transfers. So in those cases, another apartment becomes vacant every time a resident transfers. In addition, some apartments are held for residents who need to temporarily relocate when their apartment undergo major renovation and modernization work. That is our efforts to invest in, strengthen, and preserve our buildings and improve residents quality of life.

We continue to work with our partners in all levels of government to obtain every available resource to get New Yorkers into our deeply affordable apartments. We appreciate the city's ongoing support, including its funding for the vacant unit readiness program. The city has made over $222 million available to NYCHA for this program for fiscal years 2026 through 2030. All of our work is driven by our mission to provide safe homes and foster safe communities. While the obstacles are many, we are making progress thanks to the partners at DOI, NYPD, and the City Council. We appreciate our collaboration and are always looking at ways we can continue to transform as an organization and better serve New Yorkers in New York City. Thank you and we are happy to answer any questions that you may have.

(01:09:49)

Thank you for your testimony. First of all, let me just begin with a question directly towards the statement you made about the $80 billion capital need for NYCHA. With the conversion of already 27,000 to close to 30 some thousand units over to RAD pack, why has not the capital needs been decreased? And is it currently still at $80 billion based off of the testimony you gave. Thank you Chair for that question. I cannot answer that today but we will get that information back to you. Yeah we have been asked that question and it seems like we get the same response.

(01:10:44)

We do not have the information and that to me is fundamentally irresponsible. When we are talking about the need for public housing when this administration has just turned over close to $600 million to privatize continue the privatization of public housing and we do not have an inkling or a thought of what the capital needs are currently. And this number is constantly thrown out. For the last three years, it has been thrown out. And we have been converting developments. How

(01:10:54)

long, Brian, you can answer this. How long have we been converting developments? When was the first

(01:11:43)

developments since 2017. We have converted now. How many years has that been since to

(01:11:45)

now 2026? So we are nine years. We are close to 10. Nine years since 2017 now in 2026. How many NYCHA developments have been

(01:11:51)

converted? How many units have been converted? So we are about 30,000 units converted with another 10,000 in the pipeline. So with those conversions, why

(01:12:03)

has there not been an accurate accounting for the deduction in capital needs? And

(01:12:14)

we continue and you continue to give this $80 billion capital need. Yep. So the PNA is done every five years. We will have another we will

(01:12:19)

have another one coming out soon enough. Believe you know, time goes fast. And because the last one came out in 2023, the good news is and we would be happy to brief the committee on this with our with the capital team. The good news is

(01:12:30)

the number is starting to flatten off which is good and that is number one the investments that we have to the core pillar areas is showing results. Also the local funding that we are getting both from the city and both from the state is also unprecedented and also paying off. But these conversions are also having a tremendous impact every time we are taking a development off of the section 9 and onto section 8. It does reduce the number. But we So would that be would that mean there would be more capital monies now to then invest in public housing? No, unfortunately not because but there is no profit. NYCHA has no profit. It is neutral. No. Yeah. RAD was set up to be a cost neutral program. So what happens is that eventually after the first year the subsidy for those developments no longer goes to NYCHA. So they do not get capital funding for those developments. So there is a decrease in funding.

(01:12:45)

Okay.

(01:13:59)

Well hopefully we can get an accurate accounting. We definitely could be happy to

(01:14:02)

Well hopefully we can get an accurate accounting. >> We defin we definitely could be happy to

(01:14:06)

set up and at our next public hearing we are not getting the 80 billion and the next 5 years down the road we are

(01:14:12)

not getting the same 80 billion. It is definitely tough because it is not a static number too. We have also seen

(01:14:18)

tremendous increases with inflation, tremendous increases with tariffs. So if that is the case, all we are asking

(01:14:24)

is for you to be transparent to the residents and to this committee. Give us accurate information. Happy to do so and always. So we look forward to getting that information from the authority. Okay. Let me get to vacancies directly. I know you stated the number of current vacancy units at 6,294. Does this include the vacant units that are permanently off the rent roll? It does not. That includes the units that are under turnover that are vacant available and that we are going to turn over and make available for new residents. So how many units are permanently

(01:14:42)

off the rent roll? Thank you, chair, for that question.

(01:15:06)

Just give me a moment. I will give you that answer.

(01:15:09)

So permanent off the rent roll is as of today is 1447 and I can give you a breakdown of the categories that those are in. Yeah, if you can give us a breakdown I

(01:15:19)

greatly appreciate it. And all these units off the rent roll are they uninhabitable? So I being used for administrative purposes. Thank you chair for that question. I

(01:15:29)

did not mean to speak over you. I will give you a line by line breakdown right now. Okay so 52 units are off the rent roll due to the building being vacated. 767 are building being vacated for PACT conversion. 271 conversion to a smaller unit or a larger unit meaning that the units being reconfigured. 114 are NYCHA management offices and have long been NYCHA management offices. 93 are other program centers to other community type of facilities. 79 are for resident association use. We provide our tenant associations with an office and many times that is an apartment that we convert to an office and the administrative purposes. The ad I do not have a breakdown of each one but it can be another community need or another any other community purpose that we would put towards that unit. Has NYCHA done an evaluation of whether these off the rent roll units can be returned back to the housing stock? Let me just finish the categories and I will answer your question if that is okay because there are a couple other you might have questions about. 52 are listed as uninhabitable and cannot be rehabilitated. Mainly those would consist of like basement apartments and things that you know that we would not recommend and really just dilapidated. And 19 are for what they call viper rooms or law enforcement purposes.

(01:15:39)

Okay. And these have to be approved by HUD before we you know before we remove from permanently off the rent roll

(01:17:10)

and for administrative purposes. I would have to get a council a followup on the other program center designation

(01:17:16)

like a breakdown of what those what those units are and what they would be used for but it would be for an approved community purpose that we would have to you know take

(01:17:22)

and has there been an evaluation done for these off the rent roll units to be returned back to the housing stock.

(01:17:30)

Thank you chair for that question. Not to my knowledge not likely comprehensively. We have looked at you know certain office spaces that we might be able to turn back like on an individualistic basis but not

(01:17:38)

you said office spaces not the tenant association office.

(01:17:52)

No like yeah where somebody might have left it like where an organization for example I was at one in Jefferson recently where an organization had stopped operating there and had stopped using those offices and we were considering converting them back into into apartments. So you know on a case-by-case basis, yes, we do a reevaluation in operations, but we have not done like a comprehensive re-evaluation of the

(01:17:55)

Well, we would appreciate if you do a comprehensive reevaluation.

(01:18:21)

Per NYCHA's data, the average turnover duration peaked at 425 days in August of 2024 and was 376 days in May of 2025. What is the current average turnover time and what is NYCHA's target timeline for turnover completion?

(01:18:25)

Thank you chair for that question. So the current time is 340 days. Our target is to get it under 300 days and we are on the trend to do that. We have reduced it from over 400 days just last year down to now down to the 340 days. We are targeting units that have been vacant older. I think the most important thing to understand with vacant units and that I just want to get out here today is this is not a static universe. The way that I feel it sometimes talked about is that these are the same 6,300 units sitting there. They are not. It is a dynamic universe where every month hundreds are rented up, hundreds more become vacant, and we are in a constant cycle. We work seven days a week to turn over vacant units with our in-house trades, with funding provided by the city to turn over vacant.

(01:18:48)

But it is your testimony that this 6,294 vacant units, that is the that is an accurate number.

(01:19:41)

Yeah, it goes up and down from day to day. Every day it is different. It is a dynamic number.

(01:19:49)

Yeah. So is this an accurate number as of today? Then

(01:19:53)

you can check the number I would say is accurate number as of the past couple weeks. Yes. Changes every day. It changes every day.

(01:19:57)

Yeah.

(01:20:04)

Okay. What is the current average turnover time? And what is NYCHA's targeted time for turnover completion? Thank you, chair. So again, it is 340 days is our current time and our goal is to get it below 300 days

(01:20:04)

and approximately 60% of NYCHA move-ins are resident transfers and meaning a move-in generates a new vacancy 60% of the time. How many of the transfers generated vacancies were created in 2025?

(01:20:19)

Thank you, chair. Just bear with me a moment. I will pull those numbers out. I just want to give you an accurate breakdown. So the number of new admissions was so this is a new person coming into NYCHA was 1916 with 1,088 of those were from were DHS were from the DHS referral program.

(01:20:39)

Okay. And and then I am going to ask another question then you can you can finish your statement. Yeah. Let me just give you the transfer number. So the transfer number last year was 2751. 2751. Okay. And how many of those trans Okay. And how Okay. And we got we got that answered. I am going to turn it over to CM Restler.

(01:21:14)

And then I will come back to my line of questioning. I really appreciate it, Chair Banks. And I want to thank the NYCHA tenants for their compelling testimony today about the real world implications on safety when we when we failed to renovate NYCHA Apartments. Three years ago I have been raising this issue at public housing committee hearings for about four years. Three years ago I appeared on Errol Lewis to highlight that we had seen an explosion in NYCHA vacancies under Eric Adams. You know, when when Mayor Adams came into office, there were hundreds of vacancies. Back then, there were 4,000 vacancies. Today, there is almost 6,300 vacancies. We continue to absolutely fail on this. It is an utter disgrace that we have so many vacant NYCHA apartments, and this issue continues to get worse. I am incredibly disappointed in the housing authority and frankly in city government over this four-year period for caring so little about maximizing the most precious of resources, our affordable housing. The 12-fold increase, the 1,200% increase in vacant NYCHA apartments under Eric Adams is one of perhaps the single most compelling statistics that demonstrates the utter management failure of his administration. And that is really quite a statement considering what an abomination of an administration it was. With that, with the $222 million in capital funding that is available to NYCHA to repair these apartments, firstly, does NYCHA expect to spend the full 222 million?

(01:21:34)

Absolutely.

(01:23:05)

This year at the end of this fiscal year, three months from now, how many vacant apartments will there be and how many vacant apartments will there be at the end of next fiscal year with the funding you have available? Thank you. Thank you, CM, for your question. So I will give you a target for what our production rate is, which I measure the import most important statistic for me is how many units I am completing each month and how many people I am moving into those new new lead-free apartments each and every month. So our goal is to complete approximately 580 apartments per month and then to rent more than 400 apartments per month. We want to so we want to definitely match our number.

(01:23:06)

Pause you for a second. So your goal is to renovate 580 apartments per month. Before we even talk about how many new vacant apartments exit happen each and every month, your goal is over a 12-month period to conceivably renovate all of the vacant apartments that are vacant today. It will take you 12 months to vac to renovate every apartment that is vacant as of today. If you are doing 580 a month, multiply that by 10, it is 5,800 11 months. Excuse me, I overstated it. Is that right? Yeah. So yes, it is a little more we are we are that is our target every single month that we review every single day. You hitting that target on a monthly basis?

(01:23:48)

Yes, we are.

(01:24:27)

Okay. So 11 months if what resource

(01:24:28)

constraints do you have? If you had a magic wand and chair banks were to come down from on high and solve all your problems, how would you how could you speed that up if expense dollars were available to you on these repairs? If there were other agency resources that were available on these repairs, how could you go f what would it take for you to go faster for you to increase that 580 number to a thousand to do a thousand apartments a month?

(01:24:31)

Yeah, thank you CM for that for that question. It is a it is an important question. So over the past the city began giving us expense funding approximately two years ago which we immediately deployed to pay for overtime and materials. So the 222 million that is available for NYCHA vacancy renovations is on the capital side. what is available to you on the expense side. Just pause for a moment. Let me

(01:24:57)

pause for a moment and just grab that number for you. Well, come back to me. Why do not you answer my question? If you we could come down on high and chair banks waved his

(01:25:21)

magic wand, how could we go faster? We want to see the funding sustained for that covers both the expense and the capital side because both funding sources are important in two in two

(01:25:28)

respects. There there was some some statements that I just want to respond to. We use our trades. the best people for turning over NYCHA apartments who do the do it the fastest and the the least most cost effective is the NYCHA trades. So we need to keep those expense dollars coming in to cover our overtime costs because we work seven days a week on vacant apartments to hit those high numbers that we are hitting each month on the on the capital side. I need money for asbestos abatement and continued let

(01:25:40)

Could you provide a proposal to this city council of what it would take resource-wise expense and capital for you to do a thousand apartments a month? Thank you CM for that question. Yes we could we could provide that. Yes.

(01:26:07)

Okay. Because that to me is the minimum that we should be absolutely doing. You are saying today it is going to take 11 months to repair all the vacant apartments that we have today. We know there are more apartments that become vacant every single day with turnover that exists in the NYCHA community. And we need these apartments for emergency transfers. We need these apartments to move people out of shelters. We need people these apartments for the folks who have been desperately waiting on the waiting list for decades. You spoke eloquently to the 1447 units off the rent rolls. Is my last question. Chair Banks, I really appreciate it. Non-dwelling units. My understanding is that in addition to the 1447 that are off the rent rolls, the 6294 that are vacant, there is 1,366 that are classified as non-dwelling units. Oh, excuse me, there are 36 I missed out. At the start of the Adams administration, there were 1,362 units that were classified as non-dwelling units. As of February, a few months ago, there were 3,662, almost a three-fold increase. Could you clarify what is the state of these units? You broke down the 1447 off the rent rolls. Can you similarly explain the 3,662 non-dwelling units separate and apart from the vacant apartments? You look confused.

(01:26:21)

I am sorry if I look confused. I apologize. So CM, yeah, I want I want to just go over the numbers again because I want to make sure that I cover all it and be complete and transparent and accurate. So there are two categories of off-rent roll. There is permanently off rent roll and then there is temporary off-r. So I think the number I am not familiar with the number that you stated in the in at least in the way that you phrase it in terms of the temporary off the rent roll. I gave the breakdown for the permanent. I will give you the breakdown for the temporary. So there are 2280 temporary off the rent roll units. So what those are there are 35 that have been taken off the rent roll due to a fire really fire apartments. 279 are are held for major modernization or relocation such as like a project like Guanas the comprehensive modernization of Guanas hospitality apartments are 508 critical part of the other piece of vacant apartments. Yeah. So we have been doing in the past two years more serious repairs than we

(01:27:40)

have in a very long time. We do asbestos abatement in occupied apartments. We do lead abatement in occupied apartments and we do major rehabilitations of uninhabitable apartments. So to do those repairs safely, what we do is we have a major we have initiated a major relocation program across NYCHA on a unit-by-unit basis so that if you want your apartment fully rehabbed and you live in an uninhabitable condition, we will relocate you to a hospitality unit, we will redo your apartment and we will move you home. It has been transformative because what we are doing now is getting more major work done for people who have been waiting and and it has been a very successful program. We also do use hotels as well for that program, but sometimes the repairs are going to take more than like a couple weeks. So we want to really simply be to be comfortable. So those that that would be our hospitality unit universe. Which is

(01:28:41)

another critical part of vacant apartment management that does not get talked a lot about, which is we we turn over a certain number of apartments per month, but if somebody needs major work done, you know, those units, we need to transfer that person immediately into that. We need to convert it to a hospitality unit so that you so that person can be repaired. Next category. Sorry, my apologies. Okay. So major major modernization not funded and cannot be rented is is 23. Major modernization funded is 477. Natural disaster is 7. Other major modernization relocation is 10. Other major modernization required funded is 108. Police there are there are certain that are sealed due to an

(01:29:35)

investigation are only two. 504 for disability modification is 49 for section 504. 474 are as our trust relocation site for our for our trust program and then 308 are at a trust site and are being held for that major modernization at that site.

(01:30:17)

Okay. So just to be clear, it sounds like we have got about 2230 temporarily off the rent rolls, 1447 that are permanently off the rent rolls. That combined is the figure that I was referring to the non-dwelling units. It is on the NYCHA website. That is correct, sir. So and that is in addition to the 6,300

(01:30:36)

nearly vacant NYCHA apartments. So almost 10,000 units. Not all of them can be habitable, but most of them can be. And we have got a lot of work to do to actually make them habitable. I think one of the core things I am going to be judging the Mamdani administration on is how quickly they fill these units. And we have so much work to do. Please get us that proposal for how to do a thousand a month as quickly as possible. Thank you, chair.

(01:30:54)

Understood, sir. Thank you.

(01:31:14)

CM Ossé, you

(01:31:16)

Thank you, Chair. So you know, first I want to acknowledge and thank the pre- panelists for their testimony. I unfortunately have heard their testimonies over and over again during my time working for the council. In your testimony, you you all mentioned that you are accepting all five of DOI's proposals and suggestions. So I have some rapid fire questions around that. The first one in conducting monthly inspections, who exactly is conducting them and when do will they begin roughly around?

(01:31:21)

Thank thank you CM for that question. They will be conducted by our superintendent and assistant superintendent. They are beginning this month. And so we this will be the first month of reporting under under the new program and they will be reporting to you every month and then they you will be and will that report be made available to the public? Will you be reporting it to any other agencies at at quarterly or where will this report live? Thank thank you councilman for that question. It is certainly something that we would be happy to make public. for

(01:31:59)

Uh, thank thank you council member for that question. Uh, they will be conducted by our superintendent and assistant superintendent. They are beginning this month. Uh and so we this will be the first month of reporting under under the new program >> and they'll be reporting to you every month and then they you'll be and will that report be made available to the public? Will you be reporting it to any other agencies at at quarterly or where will this report live? >> Uh thank thank you councilman for that question. It's certainly something that we would be happy to make public. uh for

(01:32:34)

the first month. We are just right now putting it together. And to be clear, I think the DOI recommendation said that we were going to implement it in a year. I want to be clear what that is. So we are going to implement like an interim program that will track it, but we want to move to like our work order system in Maximo, which requires a little bit more of a complex IT buildout. So that will be

(01:32:54)

what we are working on, but we are going to start the inspections themselves and the reporting. But yes, we will be happy to share that information with the Council or any member who requests it. And the inspection means they are going in, they are looking, making sure it is locked, they are making sure no one is in it, the whole shebang, right? That is essentially what an inspection means for those units. Yes, CM. And I can actually read to you what they are going to inspect. And I want to be clear, like we inspect our units for a variety of things. We have dozens of different types of inspections that we do, and we already do have vacant unit inspections for repairs. We are also starting one to ensure that there are no active leaks or problems in them while they are vacant. This will be especially for to ensure the unit is secured. So what we are going to look in is to see the ensure that the door is locked and secured and not damaged. We are going to ensure there is no evidence of any trespass or of individuals improperly inside the unit. We are going to ensure that the door is secured with a proper moveout cylinder and not a 65 key or a hasp or padlock. We are going to ensure the windows are secured. That is another method of breaking and entering is through windows. If the door or lock requires repairs, the superintendent or assistant superintendent must immediately create the work order

(01:34:06)

which we create our work orders on our phones in order to address the deficiency. That would be an emergency repair. If a unit shows signs of active trespass, we will staff are directed to immediately contact 911 to have any unauthorized individuals removed, which I want to be clear is our existing practice. We are just reiterating it to staff. If a unit shows signs of previous trespass, replace the cylinder with a new move out cylinder and if warranted, take additional steps to secure the unit. And if individuals in the apartment are not removed immediately, property

(01:34:40)

managers must contact the NYCHA Law Department through our data sharing platform that we use. And then the NYCHA law department will provide guidance on next steps. And in all events, we must notify our emergency team, our office of safety and security, and our senior management team. Okay. And I understand that you feel that you know these inspections have been done. I myself have walked through the NYCHA developments. Some of those doors are wide open. You knock on them, you can tell that they have been manipulated. And so I am glad that this will be happening now every month in the details that

(01:35:18)

you have presented. You also mentioned that you were going to be requiring resident watch volunteers to report certain things and I just wanted to know how you can require volunteers and not necessarily staff to do some of this reporting. Like it would make more sense that you require staff to do something and not volunteers. I have had many developments that unfortunately volunteers, resident association presidents have been attacked by other residents. It is not safe in order to use them as a vehicle to do things. So I am trying to figure out that piece.

(01:35:55)

Thank you CM for the question. I am going to answer the second part and then I am going to ask my colleague Mr. James Sretto to join to talk about resident watch. Our staff absolutely are required to report this. In fact every day our caretakers who do the janitorial tasks have a daily checklist. Our supervisors of caretakers have to do monthly inspections which are all automated and available to review to look at all issues including door security including rear door security and every day we have staff walking our buildings and they are absolutely 100% required to report immediately to EMSD to our emergency department if they see any issue and they are directed to call 911. So they absolutely bear the obligation, the first and foremost obligation to report this and we have reiterated that in this most recent directive. So if they see in a condition, these people that are walking around the buildings, if they see a condition, they are then reporting it through the app themselves is what you are saying.

(01:36:51)

They are creating a work order. Yes. There is often and you know okay. Because many times our staff has created work orders that have not existed. They are seeing conditions when they are going into the buildings and those work orders are not in the system already. So they are that means to me that people are not reporting these staff that

(01:37:10)

you say are walking through the

(01:37:12)

hallways. They are not reporting the conditions. We have ceilings in the hallways that are falling apart, leaks in the buildings, hallways with people in them. Like these things are daily occurrences in the NYCHA developments that we have. So I am assuming that those tickets are not being created, which means that those people are not walking around the neighborhood, walking around the floors. Thank you, CM, for that question. We do have tracking of every single one. So if there is a particular development that you would like to see the tracking, I would be happy to sit down with you or your staff to show you the tracking tools and down but to the work order level. I do want to also note I do want to just

(01:37:58)

speak out on behalf of our staff. In the past two years we have been subject we get subject to an independent HUD inspection every single year at each of our properties. In the last year alone we passed the vast majority of those inspections through HUD and through their REAC independent REAC team under the stricter inspire standards that were adopted by the last administration. So we are seeing improving scores and

(01:38:23)

we are messaging to our staff the importance of reporting not only problems in common areas but we have also started this program this year called maintenance cares where right now we are inspecting 100% of our apartments every single year. We are entering the third year of 100% apartment inspections. We are now requiring our maintenance workers to escalate any uninhabitable conditions to directly to me and to my staff so that we can immediately deploy skill trade resources to help assist residents living in uninhabitable conditions. We have already addressed approximately about 775 of those uninhabitable apartments in just the first year alone. And we are pushing our maintenance workers through literature, through posters to report uninhabitable conditions in our apartments so that we can achieve better conditions for our residents. We are also you mentioned leaks. We are also rolling out this year with our federal oversight team in bias a new leak standard procedure with better technology, better tracking of leaks to improve leak response. Our pipes are very old. They are degraded. That is our PNA number, we definitely need more money for plumbing. And that is something that we are trying to do better. So we are seeing improvements, but if there is a particular building or development that you would like us to look at the our monthly inspections, I would be happy to walk through them with your staff.

(01:39:45)

I would love that because I do not think it translates to the people on the ground. It really just does not. And we get calls all the time. And I am really glad that you are seeing some improvement in your numbers, but the tenants in my developments are not seeing improvement in their quality of life. And so it is just a tale of two stories. And there are some things that NYCHA gets right, but that in very serious situations like safety, we want to make sure it always gets it right and not just sometimes. So

(01:40:15)

thank you, CM. I agree. Thank you, chair.

(01:40:20)

Thank you. Let me get back to my line of questioning. And particularly dealing with the turnover cost and funding and overtime. At a June 2025 public housing committee hearing, NYCHA stated that most of the vacancy turnover repair work relied on overtime. How much did NYCHA spend on turnover related overtime for 2025? And what percentage of this work relies on overtime labor? Thank you, CM, for that question. If you just bear with me a moment to I have that number in my materials. I just need. Okay, I will give you as much time as you need. How much did they spend in 2025? And what percentage of this work relies on overtime labor

(01:41:59)

I mean, if you do not have the information, it is. I do have the information. I am just trying to make sure I give you the right number on the record. So you know what? Let me I will look for I will look for it and I will provide that followup. I was not here.

(01:42:38)

I am going to let me get that answer accurate for you, CM. Have any data on. Yes. Yes, we do. I do not know if I should ask further questions on this topic. I do not think you are prepared. Okay. So yeah, I have it right here. I am going to read I am going to give you an answer.

(01:42:58)

We got a lot of NYCHA staff here and we do not have proper data that is needed, but we will you have it. So we will hopefully we will get that. But I will ask the question for the record. I will go on to the next question and if you do not have information please we will definitely look forward to getting that question these questions and answer it. How many additional skill trades positions would NYCHA need to add to perform the same volume of work without relying on overtime and what would the annual cost be?

(01:43:33)

I am sorry. Can you repeat that question?

(01:43:35)

How many additional, this is in relation to the overtime. How many additional skilled trade positions would NYCHA need to add to perform the same volume of work without relying on overtime? And what would the annual cost be? It is related to

(01:43:56)

So last year. So yeah, so last year we spent $122 million on vacant apartment turnover. Okay. And that was so in a significant portion of that was with overtime. I would say I do not have the number of what would it take to replace all the staff. I do not know if that would be a cost savings because that is bringing in new staff. So that is new fringe on top of that. So I do not have that cost comparative of what would it would take to bring in all those new staff. But I can tell you in my experience here using it using the skill trade overtime is the most we have done analysis of that it is more cost effective than using vendors. It is significantly less costly than using vendors. Our skilled trade staff also especially in terms of the plaster trade have the most significant inputs. The one of the most difficult parts of unit turnover at NYCHA is the plastering. The plastering at NYCHA is like is like no other plastering in the private industry. We do not use a lot of sheetrock. These this trade is usually is really just building walls from the ground up using old practices. It is a very difficult trade to hire for. We actually have had more success in recent years. We have started a plaster academy to train in-house staff and more plastering. But that trade there you really cannot supplement with vendors and it is hard to hire significantly more given the sort of rarity of that trade.

But that is one of our number one challenges with turnovers is that plastering trade because the same plasterers are also doing work in occupied units. Now you might then ask well why do not you create a specific team for the vacant apartments? Well that was tried actually and actually did not work. The best way to do it is to have the same people at the developments continue to work on vacant apartments. If like an appointment gets canceled, they can go directly into a vacant apartment and begin the work on their normal shift. But we want a high number. So we have relied a lot on overtime. It allows us to work 7 days a week also on these turnovers which is critical to keep up the high number. So 122 is overall is the 122 million is our overall number. I will get you a breakdown on the what that is over time. And I apologize for not having that.

(01:46:13)

It is okay. We will wait for your response on those questions. And we will actually I will get this question out. Has NYCHA held any discussions with unions regarding potential reclassification of these skill trade positions from hourly to salary status? If you can get that information to us, we appreciate it. Okay. Let me move on to the next question. DOI DOI report frames vacant NYCHA apartments as a significant public safety risk. The report documented trespassing, gang activity, narcotic storage, weapon recovery, and at least one homicide that occurred in vacant units. How much does NYCHA spend annually on security at NYCHA developments, including NYPD housing bureau resources dedicated to NYCHA properties, the housing bureau reclamation unit, and NYCHA's own office of safety and security and any private security or surveillance contracts.

(01:47:28)

I can give you the number for the office of safety and security. I cannot speak to the NYPD's own budget. We have NYPD here on the dais with us who

(01:47:37)

can speak to their. Well, you have for the NYCHA. Okay. You have for NYCHA NYPD. You do not have the numbers for NYPD housing bureau resources. We do not we have NYPD and the dais. Oh, so there we go. You are going to

(01:47:49)

answer that question. I am. I can tell you that in the housing bureau reclamation unit, we have one sergeant and five detectives. That is our personnel requirements for housing reclamation. As far as the actual number of total officers assigned to housing bureau in general, I do not have that, but I can easily get that for you. Please, I would hope that you all would have been came prepared today for that. But yes,

(01:48:16)

I do have the number for overtime. I just could not find it in that spreadsheet. I apologize. I am not a spreadsheet guy, so I do apologize. It is okay. For the record,

(01:48:24)

the amount that we spent on overtime was $50 million. 50 million on over time. Okay. All right. In theory, fewer vacant units would mean fewer opportunities for trespassing, illegal occupancy, and criminal activity that the DOI documented. Has the City ever evaluated whether redirecting a portion of the security spending to accelerate vacant unit rehabilitation? And that would produce better public safety for the residents.

(01:49:04)

Thank you, chair, for that question. The City has dedicated significant resources and continues to dedicate significant resources to help us increase the turnover time. In fact, the funding that the City and the Council provided to us enabled us to dramatically increase the moveins by that 76% and also the flexibility to use that money for overtime, materials, and critical environmental costs. The issue of rededicating critical safety and security money. No, I am not aware of that. But that is a we want to make sure that money is also preserved for safety and security for CCTV cameras and other critical programs for resident safety.

(01:49:41)

And has NYCHA pushed the City the state to increase budget allocations for the vacant unit readiness program?

(01:49:52)

Thank you, chair, for that question. Yes, we have. We have secured another 222 million through the City for the next through 2030 and in addition the state has allocated $25 million that will enable us to continue the critical environmental work in these vacant units.

(01:50:10)

The New York state budget is in the final stage of negotiations in Albany. Has NYCHA received any indication formally or informally that the state plans to provide funding to NYCHA? Any funding and has there been any mention of any funding to rehabilitate the vacant units?

(01:50:31)

Thank you, Chairman. Defer to Mr. Honen who is directly involved in that?

(01:50:34)

Sure. We have spent a lot of time in Albany advocating for residents. In the assembly budget, there is $750 million proposed for capital. In the Senate budget, there is 500 million. So we do feel like we are in good place with both the legislature. Also, very exciting this year. There is a hundred million proposal in the assembly budget for expense dollars. The first time I have seen this in a long time. It is 60 million of that money of that would go towards Mitchell Lamas which badly needed and also 40 million for NYCHA. It is something that we just recently met with the chair of ways and means in the assembly to let and we regularly talk to the housing committee and the governor's office as well. So we are up in Albany talking to them down here. We are really doing our best to advocate for those dollars.

(01:51:32)

Do you feel that the state has treated NYCHA as a priority? I think we have come a long way. I have

(01:51:39)

been going up to NYCHA to OMB for 20 years and there was a long time where I was banging my head against the wall. I think that especially with the new leadership in both houses, they did make it a priority and we went from no dollars to over a billion dollars in the last 10 years. So I think that is progress.

(01:52:01)

Thank you. We are going to move to lead abatement on the units. How many vacant units are currently awaiting lead abatement?

(01:52:11)

So how many vacant units are in the hundreds? Do you have an exact number?

(01:52:18)

I will get... Yes.

(01:52:21)

So I want to explain. We have done 18,000 lead abatements over the past approximately four years. We do about 200 lead abatements per month in our vacant units. So we have two programs. Well, it is really one consistent program. We have our Tempo program. So any NYCHA resident that wants their apartment abated for lead can opt in voluntarily to Tempo, which enables them to have their apartment abated. We relocate them to a hotel. We provide meal assistance and also transportation assistance. We abate the lead. We repair the area that was under abatement and then we move families home. We do that for hundreds of residents per month and that has been a very successful program. However, we all understand that relocation is not for everybody. So it is critical that we also do it during our vacant process. So about 200 apartments per month are abated and that is what we are currently funded for. We have extensive number of abatement contractors. So contractors is not an issue. We are just constantly abating apartments these days.

Has there been any complaints during that whole process from residents claiming that they were moved out their apartment or asked to relocate and they got back to their apartment and nothing was done? Thank you chair for that question. Certainly there have been complaints. I mean this is doing work in people's homes when they are not there. So one point of frustration can be you go to a hotel, average stay right now is about two weeks, you come back expecting a new apartment. However the City gave us money for lead abatement and for the repairs associated with that lead abatement. So we do not have the ability to do a full renovation during that two week period. We do the areas that were under abatement and that can be a small area or it can be a large area. We have in-house plasters. We have carpenters dedicated to that program. But some folks might come back, for example, a common complaint we might get is, "Well, I did not have any lead in my bathroom. You did not touch my bathroom. You did not repair my bathroom."

Well, unfortunately for that program, it is about... it is a lead abatement program, so we want to get the lead out. We want to get it out as fast as possible for our youngest residents. Lead is a lifelong health issue if you have an elevated blood lead level especially if you are under the age of six. So this is a program dedicated at lead abatement and we work with those residents. We have a great proactive team. We actually just got recognized by the TA president for Millbrook Houses. I think we have been on the ground for years now and learned a lot through that program. So I think we have got complaints less today than when we first started because it was the first time we ever did this.

And when it comes to asbestos abatement, the DOI report mentioned that approximately 80% of NYCHA's vacant apartments contain asbestos containing materials. How many vacant units are currently awaiting asbestos...

(01:55:38)

treatment and how many licensed asbestos abatement vendors does NYCHA currently have under contract? I am going to give you... thank you chair for that question. I am going to give you an answer on the units awaiting lead abatement right now and then I am going to get you the answer on asbestos in just a moment. So 1,120 units are currently awaiting lead work for vacant apartments as of right now.

(01:56:04)

And then I guess I will ask the other two questions maybe get that information as well. What is the average time from asbestos work orders to abatement completion? So on the contract issue, we are currently... we complete 200 lead abatements per month as I mentioned and we are budgeted to do 215 asbestos abatements each and every month in vacant units in our portfolio. For lead contracts, we have six lead contracts with a total capacity of $275 million and nine asbestos contracts with a total capacity of $33 million. To date, NYCHA has spent over $114 million for lead abatement and over $104 million for asbestos abatement in vacant units in the public housing portfolio.

How long does it take? And we have 152 units awaiting asbestos abatement right now. So the way that we have... in the past few years, myself and others have developed workflows. So one of the issues that we saw when I first took this role, there was not good synchronization between the environmental teams and the construction teams. So now what we do is we ensure that the unit gets abated first as part of the first step. Once it is cleared, we then immediately notify the trades. We send out lists of completed vacant apartments every week that are cleared so that trades can immediately begin work. That is how we increase our production. It is about... I would say I do not have the number, but I am going to guess it is probably about a few months before we can start given the pipeline, because we have to work towards a budget. And right now we are budgeted to do 215 per month for asbestos abatement. Asbestos abatement is very expensive in New York City. It is $25,000 on average per apartment.

(01:58:17)

And does NYCHA have a pre-qualified vendor list for the lead and asbestos abatements? We have a stable of contractors that we go through a procurement process on a cycle basis to bring in the qualified licensed contractors. So we have large scale contracts. It is not a pre-qualified list per se, but we go on cyclical contracts basically so that we are never losing contract capacity. We are just constantly going out for procurement and bringing in new contracts.

Okay. We are going to move on to unauthorized occupancy and vacant unit inspections. A portion of this was brought up by one of my colleagues. The DOI report identified 548 apartments reclaimed from unauthorized occupants between July of 2022 and May of 2025, but does not break down who those occupants were. Of the 548 cases, how many were trespassers with no prior connection to the apartment or tenant of record? How many of those were individuals who claimed the prior apartment of record had permitted them to stay? How many of those were individuals asserting remaining family member claims? And are there any other categories?

(01:59:48)

Thank you, chair. Excellent question. I want to... I think I am going to rely on my colleagues a bit for this. I do want to give a brief overview of the numbers as noted in the DOI report. That statistic came from the NYPD. And so we will talk about a couple different numbers that will get to your answers. I do just want to give a brief overview before we get into that of the process. Very brief.

Okay, so just very brief. When as I mentioned earlier, if our staff encounters a break-in in the unit, we instruct them to immediately call 911 to have that person removed and oftentimes that is done within an hour. Somebody who might be unhoused might break into a unit or somebody maybe kids will break into a unit. We immediately contact 911 and those individuals are removed. But what we are going to talk about in a moment and I will first refer to Mr. Kiss and then to the NYPD is the more detailed cases that you have mentioned.

(02:00:53)

Sure, Chair Banks, thank you. First and foremost, before the police get involved in a situation, it is vetted through NYCHA and NYCHA's legal department so that at the time it comes to the police department, we know that the individuals do not have a legal right to be there. We also do our own separate investigation before we enter the apartment. So by the time it comes to the police, it has already been thoroughly investigated by NYCHA and the police that the individuals in there do not have a legal claim to the apartment. Of those 548 cases that you have cited, I just want to note that in 61% of the time, the officers do not make an arrest.

That is for a couple of reasons. Number one, first and foremost, there are times where we enter an apartment that we are attempting to reclaim and no one is there. It is just empty. The second thing is that we want our officers in these type of situations to exercise discretion and judgment and that we do come across people who may be... the problem when they are inside this apartment should not be arresting them, but rather removing them and giving them help. So that is just one of the...

(02:02:09)

things why there are a raw number of reclamations but in the overwhelming majority of the reclamations the department does not make an arrest. And of the 548 units, how many of these units were first vacant then occupied by unauthorized user? That is mostly the case, chair, where they were vacant and then somebody broke into those apartments.

(02:02:39)

That is correct. However, we have created... or the doors left open and they... Exactly, or the doors left open. What we created through the law department in conjunction with NYPD and DOI is to create a triangle where we evaluate the cases that come in and we actually have property management fill out a link with as much information as they know about the specific apartment and when we get that information we do an analysis.

(02:03:02)

Can you repeat that again? You said who fills out the link?

(02:03:05)

Property management fills out the link.

(02:03:08)

Fill out the link because they get the information. Sometimes we get information from a variety of sources. Sometimes usually it is directly from property management who hears from other residents etc. We get information from the police department and DOI sometimes gets anonymous complaints and they do some research on that. When we receive that we want to ensure that these apartments are apartments in fact that are squatters and therefore can be removed by NYPD. Very often the apartments that are being sent to us are not situations where a tenant vacated. Sometimes there is an active tenancy going on, but there are people are a little bit unclear on how this works. But it is great for us at law because we are able to do an analysis. We are able to ascertain whether we have a pending legal action. If we do not, then we start a tenancy proceeding in housing court against these individuals. What we find also is when we do start actions against these individuals often they vacate the apartment on their own even prior to eviction. So it has been a great process and procedure. Most cases we actually decline having PD go to the apartment because there are legal rights, but because we get the information we are able to move forward on each and every case that is sent to us.

(02:04:29)

When it comes to subleasing... Subleasing NYCHA apartment is prohibited under standard NYCHA lease. Did NYCHA find any evidence that a prior tenant of record had permitted or arranged or accepted payment for unauthorized occupant to remain in the apartment?

(02:04:50)

Thank you chair for that question.

(02:04:52)

Absolutely those... there are those circumstances that we find within these cases. And one thing that I think is mentioned in the DOI report but is I think really important to note here, when this program really kicked off in 2023 there was a tremendous grassroots effort with NYPD with the NYCHA law department to educate property management on escalating these cases. Therefore all a lot of these cases that are mentioned in the DOI report came from property management. For example, the Surfside Gardens example was from property management calling the police to immediately remove somebody when they identify. The literature was handed out. They came to our bureau meetings NYPD. NYPD met with our neighborhood administrators to spread the word. We had a strict reporting protocol that really led to the results that we saw in 2024. And I think the declining results we now see is the vigilance that this program created. So understand the critique definitely understand some of that for NYCHA. Accept it. But I do want to note the extensive effort here and the effort that Mr. Kiss spoke to is critical. We cannot be illegally locking out people who have a right to be there and that is the due process protection that we also have to guard against.

The DOI report mentions that nine units identified between September 24 and September 25 remain occupied as of September 25 pending legal review by NYCHA Law Department. What is the status of the nine cases? And what is the average time from identification of a disputed occupant to a final adjudication? Thank you for that question. Our turnaround is actually very quick on those. If we are able to take action, usually within two weeks, sometimes a month, we will have a response and then we will coordinate together with DOI and NYPD and then they schedule their time frame, which is usually within two weeks to month of that time period.

(02:06:59)

DOI found that NYCHA does not inspect vacant units for unauthorized occupants if they are waiting or undergoing renovation. It only inspects units that are ready for rental. NYCHA accepted DOI's recommendation to conduct monthly inspections but said that implementation would take approximately one year due to IT work order development. Can you describe the IT upgrades that are needed to conduct monthly inspections of vacant units and what is the timeline for implementing those needed IT upgrades and how has the timeline been affected by the November 2025 termination of NYCHA's contract for new resident case management system or RCMS.

(02:07:55)

Thank you chair for that question. So at the outset I want to restate we are beginning this inspections immediately this month under an interim process and we will have data tracking on those inspections that we would be happy to share. That is going to start immediately. In terms of the Maximo work order buildout, the process is basically we have to work with the software developers or... I do not know if that is the proper term for them but the developers to build out a proper work order which is a complicated process and you got to get it right so that by the end of the year we are hoping to have that work order in place so that we can have it documented in Maximo. But we are going to start the process immediately which I think will be a good process to start. Then there will be a work order so you will be able to track it with some additional data and that should hopefully be done by the end of the year.

Work order development is complicated. This is a dynamic universe. I think the biggest IT challenge that we are going to have to implement here is the dynamic nature of the universe. We do not want to have somebody... because people are moving in and out every day. We do not want to have inspectors showing up and opening the door and somebody is in the apartment. So we have to make sure that that data talks to all the different systems so that we are truly getting the accurate vacant unit number for that month since this is a dynamic population. And it is not affected by RCMS in any way, shape, or form. It is Maximo.

(02:09:20)

And I think this is a question that I think most residents would ask. Why did it take so long to come to a conclusion or have to take a DOI recommendation to get NYCHA to inspect their vacant units? To me it just does not even... it makes no sense that NYCHA would take a position that they would inspect units once a year when there is data shows there have been multiple complaints by residents of these unsafe units of doors being left open, squatters, even complaints of staff members using the apartments. Why did it take so long? Thank you chair for your...

(02:10:10)

question. I think the issue is enhancing the inspections. We do inspect vacant units. So when a unit becomes vacant... So the yearly... or this yearly inspection that was done was done on what classification of units? The yearly inspection that... that new inspection is just starting. So there is an inspection upon the turnover. So when somebody moves out the superintendent does an inspection.

(02:10:49)

Tenant moves out the apartment, superintendent does the inspection.

(02:10:53)

Yes sir. And the management... they come back the year later and check the apartment out. That is what you are saying. That was the practice... that is...

(02:11:04)

simplifies that. So I am at a property every single day. I am not talking about you but about the management, the folks that are boots on the ground at the development. Is it your testimony that was the practice?

(02:11:19)

that every year or well let me just say this one inspection was done for the year and then by the superintendent and then they waited another year to come later to... Thank you chair for that question. I would like to try to explain. Yes okay so that on paper that might be how it sounds however we have staff in our buildings every single day as I mentioned. Every day, a caretaker has to walk down every floor in their building and report any conditions that they identify and report it into their supervisors each day. In addition, our superintendents are constantly walking move out to inspect. Is that documented?

(02:12:02)

No, it is not documented at all

(02:12:07)

that it is being done. So that I think is the crux of the DOI recommendation. They want a specific inspection for securing the unit which we have agreed to. It is our staff work hard during the day. Our staff work very hard. Our superintendent and often just one or two assistant superintendents they are constantly inspecting occupied apartments as well. We also have to remember most of our the vast majority of our apartments are occupied and the superintendent and assistant superintendent are doing inspections. For example, we have dramatically reduced our mold inspection which we must do under 5 days. This will be an additional inspection for them to do. It will be a challenge from a labor perspective because they will have a lot more walking to do around the property. These two staff members and our properties are large. There is a lot... Do you have a breakdown of how many vacant units exist in each development? Yes, sir. We do.

(02:13:02)

And broke down per building. We have a list that changes.

(02:13:06)

Even if there was an inspection done monthly, which is being recommended by the DOI, that would have made sense. But it is just again troubling that it took so many years in a sense to figure this out and to have to have an investigation done to figure that out. Thank you. Now this leads into questions about the property manager staffing and I think we good segue. How many property manager positions does NYCHA currently have and how many of those positions are vacant? So, we have property managers at each of our consolidations. So, every NYCHA development has a consolidation has a property manager. I have not... I can get you the vacancy. We are constantly hiring in off the civil service. You said that there is a property manager at every NYCHA development. There are no vacancies. Am I correct? I did not say there are no vacancies. I said I am going to get you the vacancy number right now. I do not have that number. Your first statement was that there is

(02:14:21)

a property manager at every NYCHA development. At every NYCHA consolidation, there is a property manager position. Yes. And I am checking the vast majority are

(02:14:29)

filled. I am checking to see what the small number... Majority are filled. Okay. So, that means there are vacancies. I am going to get you that number right now, sir. Okay. You can get that number to us. Yes, sir. I am going to get you that

(02:15:11)

number. Yes, I apologize. We will move on now to resident watch and tenant patrols. Let me guess I will start with this one. As of today, how many developments have active resident watches and how does that compare to five or 10 years ago?

(02:15:34)

I am going to refer these questions to James Sretto, our head of office of safety and security.

(02:15:51)

107 developments have active... active. How many NYCHA developments are there? Roughly 200. What is your title, sir? I am going to say like 200. What is your title? VP of public safety. How many NYCHA developments exist? I am going to say around 200.

(02:16:13)

And you said there are active how many? 107. Okay. Is the resident watch

(02:16:21)

supervisors are they paid?

(02:16:24)

Given a stipend or is there some type of compensation for the residents?

(02:16:29)

They work two hours a day

(02:16:31)

five days a week and they do get

(02:16:34)

paid. They are supervised.

(02:16:35)

So they get a stipend. Yeah, it is like $400 a month or something.

(02:16:39)

Okay. And you said the current stipend is

(02:16:48)

about $400 a month. I believe so. And when is the

(02:16:51)

last time was it increased? I would have to get back to you on... I do not know. Okay. Are you familiar with the

(02:16:58)

program? Somewhat. Yes. Somewhat.

(02:17:01)

Well, it is under me. What is your title again? I am the vice president of office of

(02:17:05)

public safety.

(02:17:06)

Okay.

(02:17:06)

So, and I also was tenant patrol as a

(02:17:09)

resident of NYCHA.

(02:17:10)

Okay. And I think one of the in the pre-panel, one of the residents stated that it is not like it was once and that is pretty true because pre-pandemic we had 3,000 volunteers. We are down now to about 1,100. When the last time we have been to a NYCHA development and had a meeting... I have been to a... with a resident patrol or resident watch? I cannot say I have been out there. I cannot say... I do not know if I should ask you further the questions. No, I

(02:17:44)

because I

(02:17:44)

But that is a good question and... I mean... and then I should

(02:17:48)

it is a good question but I am asking you

(02:17:50)

the questions. I need you to answer them

(02:17:52)

so we can... Okay.

(02:17:54)

Okay. NYCHA started a quality of life form enactment which will take about six months to a year to do the IT work. Does NYCHA have any update on when they plan to implement this recommendation? It is currently almost finished. I would say 90% finished and then

(02:18:19)

it is going to go to IT to finalize. But currently we use a paper form which I happen to have here that the resident watch would submit if they see any conditions in the building. They submit it to their supervisor who submits it to the property management and again that is one of the recommendations of DOI is to speed up that process. In 72 hours they would have a response to these the form that is put in and condition that is elaborated. But what we want to do is put... and what we are doing is doing that app and that app one of the things about the app is we are trying to build back up that number. So like I said it was 3,000 at one point it is 1,100. We are hoping to get younger people to see the app. So what is... I mean outside of the app, what is being actively done on the ground to recruit resident watch? We have done one of our goals in the office of public safety was to do recruitment. So to go out community meetings. You have any recruitment material? I do not have it in front of me, but I can get it. So we did do a drive. When was the last... was the last Strauss Houses speaking to residents there to try and get them to sign up. Okay. So we wanted to build it back up. Build the program back up. And so you want to build the program back up. Yes. Build it. Yeah. Enhance it. The program does exist.

(02:19:53)

Yes. Okay. Just want to make sure. All right. And has there been any active training done for the current 107 developments that you say where they are active resident associations? We are constant... I mean resident watch... they do constant training. As a matter of fact, the NYPD did a training a joint training for us and with us last year. And how many participate in that training? I would say all 100...

(02:20:29)

I... no well there are 1,100 members. I would say a good percentage of... I do not have a number. I will get the number but that was one of the things we did with the NYPD. Okay. We want to turn to locks and keys. DOI found that all vacant apartments within a single development

(02:20:49)

share the same move out key and that is in some cases staff use a 65 key. Sorry a 65 key. The 65 key appears to be a generic key that also opens utility spaces and management offices across the authority. As of today has NYCHA issued any directive to stop the use of this 65 key?

(02:21:20)

Thank you chair for that question. Yeah. So I think in the first number one staff are not supposed to ever use a 65 key before the DOI report and after the DOI report. This was not a practice. When we learned of the DOI report, we did a survey. We did find a couple of developments varying from that practice which was unacceptable and we have taken immediate actions to have all those replaced with a proper move out cylinder. So it was a slim major slim minority that was using a 65 key. But that practice has never been permitted and should never be permitted. And DOI did not actually find any instance in their report. They just mentioned they found a 65 key in a unit and they presume that that might have been used to access something. I do not also disagree that a 65 key is a problem and so I acknowledge that the 65 key is definitely something we have already started evaluating what we can do about

(02:22:10)

improving the 65 key. So those locks have been changed. The locks. Yes. And the in the vacant apartments that in the small number that we found have been changed to the move out cylinder. You say small number. What is a small number? It was maybe a... I do not know. I do not have that number. I do not want to guess that it was a small

(02:22:29)

number. Get the number since it is... Sure. I can get you that number. What... appreciate it. NYCHA accepted DOI's recommendation to evaluate the feasibility of alternative lock sets or security technologies and to update its

(02:22:43)

standard procedure to reduce the number of apartments within the development that are accessible by the same key. When can we expect findings from NYCHA's evaluation of alternative lock sets and when can we expect the roll out of the different lock sets within the developments?

(02:23:05)

Thank you chair for that question. So the first immediate thing is that we want and this is already the practice at a number of developments and this is really determined a lot by the superintendent but we want to have multiple move out cylinders in play at a development. So there is not just one common move out cylinder. Every

(02:23:22)

development has a bespoke move out cylinder that is for that property but they should have more than one especially larger property should have more than one to secure the unit. And if that is done properly with multiple cylinders in play, that should be a sufficient mechanism there because you are not using the same key or using different keys. You do not want to have too many because you also do not want to disrupt the work from occurring. Key management when you are dealing with multiple trades to do the repairs or the abatement in the apartment is critical. So you want to make sure there is some level of commonality of the key to allow the work to happen efficiently. But we are going to look at alternative means. We will certainly look at the cost. We will certainly look at making sure it does not impede the need to work quickly in these apartments. We also do not want these to look different because one big flag on a vacant unit is if the lock looks significantly different that will obviously flag that apartment as vacant or something in there. So we are going to look at all those factors and as I said we have already started examining looking at the other common keys in practice which are mainly used in mechanical areas or other areas which we do have concerns about definitely from a security perspective. So I would say a few months to do the analysis of the market research and what is feasible. But immediately... What is the time frame? That is what I would...

I would say 3 to 4 months to do an analysis. But we are immediately going to ensure that there is more than one move out cylinder being used at a development. We have already told that to staff... 3 to 4 months for the roll out... for that should be done being done today. And if it is not being done today that is a conversation between us and our staff. But in terms of like the analysis the feasibility study

(02:25:05)

was not... the DOI report did not say how that would be documented but I assume it would be some sort of white paper or report. I would say 3 to 4 months so that we can do the market research and be able to examine that.

(02:25:17)

Has NYCHA or NYPD conducted any analysis on whether concentrations of vacant units at specific developments correlate with higher rates of reported crime in those developments?

(02:25:31)

Thank you for that question, chair. I am going to refer to Chief Gallagher on that.

(02:25:35)

Council member, I cannot say that the data bears that out in any way, shape, or form. I can tell you that the data seems to be distributed in terms of where the reclamation departments are in line with just the general raw number of NYCHA developments. I can tell you and I think it is important to say that the department is experiencing a very very good year overall for crime in public housing.

(02:26:05)

Two of the most significant findings in the DOI report. The move out key, the 65 key lock set vulnerability that did not appear in NYCHA's testimony when we discussed it... we discussed the vacant units. I believe in one of the last hearings. Was NYCHA aware of this security vulnerability in advance in the June 2025 hearing when we had it? Are you familiar? Can you repeat that question, council member? Two of the most significant findings in the DOI report was the move out key and the 65 key lock set vulnerability did not and which did not appear anywhere in NYCHA's testimony when we discussed it when we discussed the vacant units. Was NYCHA aware of this security vulnerability in advance of the June 2025 hearing? Yeah,

(02:27:10)

thank you council member for that question. So NYCHA has been working with NYPD for two years on vacant unit security since 2023. It has been an issue that has been... we have worked on extensively at the highest levels of the agency and down on the ground at individual properties. So we are definitely aware of the risk because we have been working on this issue... aware of the vulnerability. Yeah, we have been work that is why we created a program with NYPD and the law department to attack that vulnerability and improve it.

(02:27:45)

Okay. And if you were aware... did NYCHA... I do not remember these it being disclosed and the remarks that were given.

(02:27:58)

I did not testify at the hearing so I am not sure what you are referring to.

(02:28:05)

All right. When it comes to like RAD and trust vacancies we know with the conversions that have taken place or the 30 some thousand conversions that have taken place at the June 2025 hearing the Council asked NYCHA whether they proactively whether or not they proactively inspect vacant units for unauthorized occupancy. NYCHA responded at the hearing that they were not proactively going to each vacant unit because the volume of staff entering the apartment to conduct turnover work was sufficient. 9 months later, the DOI report concluded the exact opposite and NYCHA accepted the DOI's recommendation to conduct monthly proactive inspections for Section 9 units. Will NYCHA commit today to extend that same monthly proactive inspection requirement to vacant units in RAD and trust developments and have it on the same implementation timelines as the Section 9 developments as well? Thank you chair for that question. So I will have to take that back to speak to that program about it. That is not... I do not oversee the RAD development so I do not want to speak on their behalf but I will take it back... that can speak is there anybody that can speak on the behalf of RAD. Okay. I guess if you can get us that.

(02:30:04)

Yeah. I am going to go through the questions pertaining to RAD and trust vacancies and I will just read them to get them on the record. Hold on a minute. Okay. How does NYCHA communicate with RAD and trust developments to ensure vacant units are being properly turned over and secured? Thank you council member for that question. We will have to take that back to the RAD program. They are not

(02:30:36)

and as I said if

(02:30:38)

I think Mr. Honen is going to provide answers on... Okay.

(02:30:43)

Thank you council member. So we have an asset management team that regularly talks to the RAD partners. We currently have in the RAD portfolio about 1,700 vacancies. One thing that to note is that the RAD in the RAD developments the apartments have been renovated. So there is a lot less work to that needs to be done when turning over these apartments. Whereas in the public housing portfolio the average resident lives in the apartment for over 20 years and you pretty much so have to rehab the entire apartment for all those years of wear and tear. Are you aware of any unauthorized

(02:31:26)

occupants in RAD or trust developments? Not aware of if we are talking about unauthorized meaning not on the lease but somebody who is related or somehow it is a relationship. Yes, I have heard of those cases. But in terms of having no relationship, we do hear of those cases soon after turnover. But eventually those cases are weeded out. And what is the vacancy rate in the

(02:32:01)

RAD developments? I do not have that number. I just have the number of vacancies but I do not have the percentage. What is the number of vacancies then? It is 1,700. 1,700.

(02:32:14)

And that is included in the overall number? No that is not included in the public housing. That is a different number. So 1,700 vacancies that are in the RAD converted developments. And how many units have been converted? About 30,000. 30,000. Okay. And there are 1,700 vacancies that exist. Great. Correct. But this is a number that changes all the time. So what is the accurate number? So right now it is about 1,700. 1,700 as of today. Correct. Exactly. And can you give us a breakdown because NYCHA does oversight over these RAD developments. So correct? Yep. So can you give us a breakdown of those vacancies? We can give you a breakdown by development. Sure. But we would have to... No, no. The breakdown of developments by developments and then the breakdown for what is the status or the reason why they are vacant. Okay. Yeah, we can follow up. We could definitely get that information. Do you plan on conducting a proactive outreach to understand whether RAD or the trust developments experience unauthorized occupancies or improperly secured vacant apartments? Safety and security is something that is really important and is a key component of both RAD and in the trust and it is increased peace, safety and security too. So it is something that yes it is something that we monitor and we will monitor in both programs. The security apparatus in the RAD developments, is there any type of coordination with NYCHA? We do and all of the RAD partners have to submit a security plan as part of the scope of work.

So we and those plans are not only cameras but oftentimes it is hardened entranceways. It is sometimes security officers on site. Sometimes they have things called like virtual doormen. So if you are in a hallway maybe for a little bit longer than you should be, a voice will come over and say please move on. So there are a lot of different ways, a lot of ways that are very creative. But it is a key part of the program. What about resident watch? How many active resident watch would you be able to answer the question or no? Not for RAD. So do we have active numbers of how many resident watch active resident watch? Yeah, that I do not know but again I can go back to the committee for that one.

(02:35:03)

Okay.

(02:35:06)

And if you can get back to us or if you have this information, what are there any active trainings that are being done that are required for the RAD management or new management that comes in to provide to the tenants who are... Well we do as part of our meeting with them in advance and regular conversations we do go over safety and security issues regularly. And it is in both of our interests to make sure these properties are secure. And I think we do see improvements. The biggest improvement I just know anecdotally was like at Ocean Bay, right? Ocean Bay was a development known to have a lot of instances of crime. But after conversion in year number two I think they recorded like over two years without an incident and because things improved physically they also improved socially. Can NYPD speak to that please on the RAD

(02:36:15)

developments? Is there any coordination as far as with the security apparatus and some data on the vacant units when it comes to crime or gang activity or... We do not track, we do not link crime reports directly to vacant apartments. Our data is done by a sector or by a PSA, right? The form that you are talking about that is done I guess it is like a what was it? What was the title of the form? The form for resident watch. For resident watch or reports from the management company on I guess crimes that have taken place. Is that form shared with NYPD? Is there any coordination with NYPD on that? Well, all of our crime data we get from NYPD. So that is... Well, I am talking about the form that the management company fills out because I know there was a situation I remember that Lynton Houses where a tenant basically pulled out a gun or some sort on another resident. And when we had questioned the managing company, well first of all the managing company knew nothing about it after there were reports that were made and then they had to kind of figure it out that they did know about it. But we were trying to figure out when did NYPD get involved and what was their interaction with NYPD and surveilling at the cameras if need be. Sure. For us to initiate an investigation, we need to go off of an NYPD complaint report.

We want that person to speak to a police officer, one so that we can get all the details, so that we can assess the truthfulness of the person, and then we can conduct our investigation on the basis of that. Knowing just the limited data about the fact pattern that was just described to me, that definitely sounds like something that would be investigated through exactly what you said, a video canvas where you try to find video and get some type of objective record of what happened.

(02:38:27)

I just want to make it clear today that we need more oversight with NYCHA over NYCHA with the RAD developments especially when it comes to securing the residence. And this leads to my next question. Can you commit to working together with the RAD and trust developments to find out if and what extent there is vacancy security issues in their developments? Sure. We can always have conversations with them and we can look into that and again in follow-up conversations we can get back to you on that. Okay. And Chair Banks I do have that information on the property manager vacancies. We have five current vacancies of the properties. Five throughout? Yeah. Throughout the 115 consolidations. Yeah. 243 developments broken down into the 115 consolidations. And with those five vacancies, what is the structure there now? Is it their assistant manager? Is there no assistant manager as well? Let me look at the Mariners. We do not have a... We have a floating manager in Staten Island. We have a lot of staffing, staffing in Staten Island is very challenging in the property management offices retaining staff there. So the vacancy there is at Mariners Harbor. There we created a floating manager position on the island to cover because we frequently have staff shortages there either as housing assistants or as a property manager. So right now that floating manager will supplement who is experienced who will work at the properties that have it and in Staten Island generally they are able to maintain it that way.

We also have a very experienced neighborhood administrator that we just brought out to Staten Island who is excellent who is also fulfilling those functions where there is a gap. Okay. And I want to go back to RAD real quickly. When it comes to security apparatuses for those converted developments, is it practice for the RAD developments, most of them got well some of them based on obviously off of the size got hundreds of millions of dollars to do renovations to then turn around and ask council members for capital monies? So I am not aware of that but... Florentino Houses, at Florentino Houses which was converted small development at a tenant association meeting I believe gates security gates around the development or it was stated to go and ask by the management that to go and ask your council member for capital monies and I believe Florentino got about $280 million to rehab the developments. I want to find out why are they asking the council member for capital monies when that should have been part of the work scope. Yeah, CM, I cannot speak to that because I am not aware, but I would like to learn. I want you to go back and do your investigation, provide do your oversight that you should be doing and find out why are they asking council members for capital monies when they had well enough monies to do that. I will ask. Yeah. Okay. That concludes

(02:41:59)

our line of questioning for the administration or for the authority. Thank you so much.

(02:42:16)

We will now move to our public testimony. I am opening up this hearing for public testimony. I remind members of the public that this is a government proceeding and the quorum shall be observed at all times. As such, members of the public shall remain silent at all times. The witness table is reserved for people who wish to testify. No video recording or photography is allowed from this table. Members of the public may not present audio or video recordings as testimony but may submit transcripts of such recordings to the sergeant of arms for inclusion into the hearing record. If you wish to speak at today's hearing, please fill out an appearance card with the sergeant-at-arms and wait to be recognized. When recognized, you will have two minutes to speak on today's hearing topic. And if you wish to submit written statement, a written statement or additional written testimony for the record, please give a copy to the sergeant of arms. You also may email written testimony to testimony@council.nyc.gov within 72 hours of this hearing. Audio and video recordings will not be accepted. I will now call the first panel. Selenus Miranda. We have the Legal Aid Society Newman Mr. Newman Lacy Newman Lacy. Sorry about that. Isabelle Greenberg and Evan Ma. Two minutes. But if you need a little extra time, we will definitely accommodate you. I am the chair. Okay. So we are ready. We are ready. Yes. So you may begin your testimony.

(02:44:44)

In the demolition proposal of the Fulton and Elliott Chelsea Houses, we have been accused of misinforming the public. That is the key word NYCHA uses as a defense tactic. However, they never specify and say how those of us who oppose demolition have been misinforming. I can give you a few examples of the misinformation that has been circulated. First, NYCHA labeled the non-legally binding survey as a vote to legitimize demolition and only changed their tone after they have been publicly confronted about it on various occasions. Second, they said that rehabilitating the buildings will be costlier than demolition and rebuilding. However, it was later revealed that demolition and reconstruction will cost 1.9 billion, nearly twice as much. They also said that our buildings were falling apart. But NYCHA and the private developer later admitted in a letter to Community Board 4 that our buildings are structurally sound. All misleading claims that shape public perception and steer support towards the mass demolition of an existing community. They have been misleading the public in so many ways. There is more. The Meanwhile Plan was initially presented as an interim plan for repairs of our buildings with NYCHA expected to cover the cost. When confronted about NYCHA's lack of available funding, this plan was rebranded as the Bridge Plan with the private developer Essence positioned as covering those expenses.

While this change may create the appearance of relieving NYCHA of financial responsibility, the reality remains the same. NYCHA is ultimately responsible for reimbursing Essence for these interim expenses and so the funding source has not changed, only the way it is presented. They also claimed that 60% of the residents chose demolition on a survey but the breakdown of the survey is confusing to understand. Where 60% sounds like the majority, the actual numbers reveal the truth. 550 is the amount of tenants that chose demolition out of 3,388 eligible survey participants. They want to demolish a community on 550 residents who chose reconstruction on a survey. That is not even a quarter of the NYCHA population in Chelsea. NYCHA is right. There has been misinformation, plenty of it, and it is all coming from them. NYCHA and the private developers, all of their claims and accusations of us are simply a reflection of how they have been operating deceptively. We must hold NYCHA accountable and stop demolition and stop warehousing our public housing apartments to prioritize the interests of private developers. We must fill those empty units that so urgently needed. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. You may begin.

Hello, I am Isabelle Greenberg and I am a policy and business development associate with the Center for Employment Opportunities CEO and I am submitting this testimony to urge the committee to advocate for the restoration of CEO's work crews with NYCHA and highlight the necessity of transitional employment for individuals returning home from incarceration.

(02:48:13)

CEO's mission is to provide immediate, effective and comprehensive employment services to individuals recently

(02:48:19)

returning home from incarceration. And our work crews provide high-quality cleaning, beautification and trash removal services that allow justice involved New Yorkers to reinvest in their communities. We are the largest provider of re-entry employment services in New York, and we have served over 47,000 New Yorkers since 1996. Independent evaluations have shown that our program reduces recidivism by 22% and increases employment rates by 52%. Transitional jobs offer New Yorkers returning home immediate employment with daily pay and provide the stability necessary to build career capital. We are grateful for NYCHA to continuing to contract for this partnership. However, our ability to provide this essential safety net is currently under threat due to a significant loss of NYCHA partnership sites under the last administration. Since CEO's partnership with NYCHA began in 2017, we have lost over 10 NYCHA crews. Most recently, in December 2025, CEO lost its long-standing crew at Bay View Houses due to private management taking over. CEO has been informed that NYCHA has been scaling back due to financial limitations. While we primarily contract with NYCHA to provide beautification and maintenance services, including cleaning out vacant apartments, our scope of work has remained adaptable to the needs of NYCHA residents. During the pandemic, CEO assisted NYCHA by distributing over 96,000 meals to senior residents.

Currently, CEO is only down to three active NYCHA properties, Webster, Coney Island and Marlboro Houses. We are asking the chair and the committee to advocate directly to NYCHA leadership to stabilize our existing contracts and prioritize the restoration of lost crew slots and expansion of services to additional properties. So I will not continue, but thank you.

(02:50:01)

Thank you. You may begin your testimony.

(02:50:07)

Thanks. Good afternoon. My name is Evan Ma. I am a senior staff attorney with Brooklyn Defender Services Civil Justice Practice. Thank you to Chair Banks and the committee for the

(02:50:16)

opportunity to testify today about NYCHA's vacant apartments. BDS is a public defense office. We provide criminal, family, immigration and civil legal services in both Brooklyn and Queens. Because we work at the intersection of these legal systems, we witness every day the collateral legal issues that stem from legal system involvement, including housing, employment and educational issues. Specifically, I will be testifying briefly about some of the collateral consequences of NYCHA's efforts to turn around vacant apartments.

We applaud these efforts to increase the efficiency and expand access to safe and affordable housing to all New Yorkers. However, we urge this committee to take into account the dangers of allowing NYCHA to collaborate with the NYPD to circumvent the administrative and judicial eviction process, particularly as they seek to expedite the turnover of these apartments. The reality in NYCHA is that there are numerous people living in these apartments who are unauthorized occupants for a variety of reasons. These people still have profound due process rights before they are forcibly removed from these apartments, often their homes.

Using NYCHA to reclaim these apartments in lieu of seeking to evict individuals through the established judicial and administrative processes is a violation of their due process rights. We believe that NYCHA staff and the NYPD lack the resources, expertise and legal authority to ensure that they are not acting in contravention of these people's rights and we just heard from NYCHA staff about some of the issues about how they collect information about this particularly about the resident watch program.

And I will say this is not just a hypothetical concern. Despite NYCHA's claims today that they are aware of these due process issues, real BDS clients have experienced these NYCHA reclamations and had their due process rights violated. Our client, Mr. S, was just last fall removed from his apartment after NYCHA and the NYPD collaborated. He was arrested for trespassing. Those charges were ultimately dropped. But he was locked out of the apartment for weeks. He was forced to live on the street.

And Mr. S was not someone who was unknown to NYCHA. He was someone who had been given RFM remaining family member paperwork and was a lessee of the tenant before his removal. Despite this, NYCHA and NYPD evicted him in clear violation of his due process rights. He filed a legal lockout proceeding in housing court and was immediately restored. But had our client not had access to legal counsel, who knows what would have happened to him in this situation.

So I think I will end it there since I am over time, but I think the point is that we have multiple clients just in the past year who have been victims of this reclamation process who were then later restored, but the harm cannot be undone to them, and who knows how many other folks are suffering the same. Thank you. I am happy to answer any questions you have. We will also be submitting written testimony.

(02:52:56)

Thank you for your testimony.

(02:52:58)

Good afternoon, Lucy Newman from the Legal Aid Society. Your honor, in 2014, CM Richie Torres held a hearing at Brownsville Houses to talk about safety and security at NYCHA. It feels like we are talking about the same things 12 years later. NYCHA's failure as a landlord to secure buildings with working locks and intercoms and the over-policing of NYCHA communities does not make them safer.

We have serious concerns at Legal Aid about the NYPD and the DOI involvement in efforts by NYCHA as a landlord to secure possession of apartments where there are people residing in them. There are well spelled out civil legal processes that NYCHA is mandated by law to follow and the NYPD and DOI cannot be allowed to run roughshod over residents' constitutional and other legal rights.

Everyone in New York City has a right to be safe in their home. This right applies to both residents of public and private housing. Feeling safe in one's home means having working legal locks for the building entrance and the apartment itself. It means having well-lit stairwells, having a working intercom system, and it means the elevators in the building function regularly. Feeling safe in a home also means that one's friends and relatives can visit without fear that they will face harassment by the NYPD. Feeling safe means living in a community where residents feel safe and supported.

As you know in New York, self-help eviction is illegal in almost every situation. Laws that protect occupants of apartments from being removed without notice must be strictly adhered to. NYCHA has an obligation as owner and landlord of its public housing developments to carefully process situations where there is an occupant residing in a unit without a lease. And again, we have concerns about the NYPD and DOI inserting themselves in what should be a civil legal process that requires due process in summary proceedings before removing occupants. NYPD and DOI are not qualified to make determinations as to the legal rights of occupants, that is for judges in housing court.

Today we urge NYCHA to fulfill its job as a landlord. Ensure that residents are living in safe and habitable homes and we ask the City to continue designating funds to NYCHA so they can make the urgently needed repairs to get units ready for occupancy by other households. NYCHA should follow civil legal processes for determining rights to apartments and not permit the DOI or NYPD to take on that role. Thank you.

(02:55:20)

Thank you for your testimony. Adello Ramirez, Annette Tomlin, and Terry Capulano. All right, we will begin with Miss Tomlin, good to see you.

(02:56:13)

Good to see you as well. Good afternoon. My name is Annette Tomlin. I am a resident of Brownsville Houses. As I sat here this afternoon to listen to what NYCHA has expressed, I think is shameful because how long are they going to be able to get away with this madness that they continue to just do? They think that the residents are just dumb. We are not dumb. Okay. And it is ridiculous how they continuously keep having these excuses.

The questions that you asked, Mr. Banks, they did not even have the information that was needed. We go through this seriousness all the time. So, how competent or incompetent are they when it comes to this RAD pack? The monies that was spent on a failure, complete failure where they should have been investing in NYCHA is beyond my understanding.

So I come here for more clarity and more understanding and trying to get the tenants to understand how to band together because NYCHA as far as public housing is worth saving. It is not about this privatization because it is not going to work. We have seen time and time over again, especially in our own district, that it is failing across the board.

So, when we have all these other... the other gentleman, he could not even tell you how many different NYCHA housing developments there were accurately. You can look that up right at the site and he was not able to give you an accurate number. And I think this is shameful. They all need to be gone. We need a whole new set of people who are going to have integrity. And if it takes the residents to be at the table to actually sit there and advocate for themselves, then so be it because this is unacceptable.

NYCHA is over 90 years old. The plumbing, the electricity, and all of these other things that need to be addressed. My cat will not even drink the water. That is unacceptable and something has to be done. It is a demand, no longer an ask. Thank you for my time.

(02:58:36)

Thank you for your testimony. We will go to Adello Ramirez. Mr. Ramirez, that is you, sir. You may begin your testimony.

(02:58:54)

Thank you. My name is Adello Ramirez and I am here because I believe New York City can stop generational poverty before it starts. Today you are discussing security measures with NYCHA's vacant apartments. But vacancies, shelters, and long-term dependencies all have one thing in common. They begin with a lack of financial knowledge early in life.

I did not grow up with parents to teach me about money. Many of our youth do not have that guidance either. And when young people enter adulthood without basic financial skills, they end up vulnerable to debt, instability, and eventually the systems we are talking about today.

That is why I am advocating for financial literacy to be implemented in all middle and high schools across New York City. Because the truth is simple. There will never be a salary big enough if money does not get managed properly. If we want fewer families entering NYCHA, fewer long shelter stays and fewer cycles of dependency, we must start upstream in the classroom.

Teaching students how to budget, how to save, how to build credit, how to avoid predatory debt, how to make smart financial decisions is not a luxury. It is a prevention strategy. We spend billions reacting to poverty. We spend almost nothing preventing it. Financial literacy is the missing piece. It prepares young people for adulthood, stabilizes families and reduces long-term pressure on the very systems this committee oversees.

I am not asking for a new agency or a massive budget. I am asking for a shift in priorities to give every student tools that financially stable families already teach at home. Thank you.

(03:00:47)

Thank you for your testimony. Now we will move on to Mr. Capulano. Sorry about that, sir. No problem. You may begin your testimony.

(03:00:55)

Okay. I am here to talk about the safety and security of the senior buildings. I am the TA president of Melrose Tower. We are a standalone 20-story senior building in the heart of the East Village. Recently, anybody and everybody could walk into these buildings, and they do. I have been talking with Chief Credo about hopefully having monitors put in the lobby for the nighttime security and also maybe for the TA offices so that we could see everything in real time.

Recently they found guns on the 19th floor of my building and that is really alarming. So, we have school kids coming in. We do not know if those guns were from community guns that the gangs hide the guns within certain boxes and stairwells in the building or if they were placed there by some unscrupulous tenant or non-tenant. So we do not know that. The police are trying to find out the origins of the guns now and ballistics.

So this is a problem for us. We do not know what we could do as far as security. This is one of the main reasons why our building has chosen to go into the RAD route because we find that and because the complete destruction of Melrose Tower that we are heading into that direction although I wish there was another one but that is what we have. At least we will be afforded cameras on every floor which we do not have now. We just have them on the bottom floors.

(03:02:38)

Thank you for your testimony. Let me just have a question for you. Are you aware of how many vacant units exist in your particular development?

(03:02:49)

Yes, we had plenty. We have like...

(03:02:51)

because of the RAD pack situation, we...

(03:02:53)

have like maybe 60 apartments offline and this has been going on for 3 years. I am hoping the original reason...

(03:03:02)

why we have the empty apartments is because when Melrose Tower was going to be the tower that was going to be...

(03:03:08)

repaired.

(03:03:09)

Those apartments were supposed to be used as complimentary apartments while the other apartments were being fixed. Okay. So thanks to safety and security Dan Green PSA4...

(03:03:24)

and our GPR's management we were able to remove a great deal of those squatters. Okay. And this was prior to... this is no this is during the conversion because so far we have not been...

(03:03:38)

signed off on it but we have like 50 and 60 apartments empty so it is easy for people to come in...

(03:03:46)

with drills and they have been seen there with drills trying to drill in the doors because they could tell if...

(03:03:52)

they are vacant or not. So it is just so...

(03:03:55)

it is easy access into the buildings. And currently who is... is there a management company that is...

(03:04:04)

now are you in the early stages of the... yeah nothing has been signed off yet we...

(03:04:10)

have chosen the partners.

(03:04:12)

Okay. And but GPR's management has done a great job for us.

(03:04:16)

Okay.

(03:04:16)

You know NYCHA they have done an excellent job. How has that process been...

(03:04:21)

with the RAD pack?

(03:04:23)

It is ongoing. We are hoping that they are not trying to convert these senior buildings into regular stock.

(03:04:31)

So I have heard from one of the people...

(03:04:35)

involved that it seems like NYCHA might...

(03:04:37)

want to try to exhaust the senior list and then just go on to the regular list. And we are going to fight that every step. Yeah. Because we need senior...

(03:04:50)

buildings. Okay. All right. Well, let us know any way we the committee can assist you or and...

(03:04:57)

help you know support. I sure will. I have been waiting to meet you and maybe get your card.

(03:05:01)

Okay. Look forward to having a sidebar with you. Thank you. All right. Pleasure. Thank you all for your testimony. We have Santiago is the last name. You are the only person on the panel right now. Good to see you again. Likewise. You may begin your testimony. You are going to turn the mic on and move it a little closer.

(03:05:41)

Yeah.

(03:05:44)

Good afternoon, chair and members of the committee. My name is Brenda Santiago and I am a longtime public housing resident advocate. I am here today to speak on the urgent issue of security and vacant apartments and the deeper... excuse me security and vacant NYCHA apartments and the deeper failures and accountability that continue to harm residents like myself.

For over 11 years, I have been advocate for the community of First Houses. What I witness is not neglect is a pattern of systematic failure. But the issue goes even deeper. At First Houses, residents have endorsed a roof replacement project that began in late 2023. Families from the top two floors were relocated with promise the right to return to their original homes. Today, many of the residents still are not returned. We are being told there are no funds. We are being told that there is no funds to complete the process to bring families back.

Imagine being displaced from your home holding on to promise of return only to be told the promise no longer matters because the money is gone. This is not just mismanagement. This is injustice. Why are landlords not being held accountable under the law when they fail to follow through on relocation and return agreements? Why is there no enforcement mechanism from the City Council or this administration to ensure that residents are protected?

Public housing residents deserve the same legal protection, the same dignity, and the same urgency as any other New Yorkers. We need transparency on funding and timelines, repairs and relocation. Legal accountability when relocation rights are violated. Clear penalties when agencies fail to deliver... You may continue on... commitments. Thank you.

This is not just about buildings. This is about people, family, and stability. We are not asking for special treatment. We are asking for fairness, safety, and accountability. If we do not defend public housing residents, then who will? Thank you.

And just for the record, can you repeat the development where this massive displacement took place? So, First Houses development. First Houses. Okay. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Thank you.

(03:08:25)

Mr. Francis.

(03:08:54)

You may begin your testimony when you get settled. Now, hold on. Let us get the mic for the brother. You are going to turn the mic on. There is a button right there at the bottom. Just press it. There we go.

(03:09:06)

Greetings everyone. Greetings. >> I am a firm believer in solutions. As a lifetime resident of public housing, I live in the Bronx, Mott Haven Houses, which I watched them build. My father was a city worker who served in the military in World War II who moved to Patterson Houses when it first opened up in 1950. Patterson was the second. Patterson was the first public housing development in Bronx County. LaGuardia created public housing for one reason only. City workers could not afford the rent. And also they said something about a breeding place for criminal behavior and infant mortality. But at the same time he created public housing, he also signed up for the contract to build Stuyvesant Town which had a clause in it no blacks apply. It is all part of New York City history. But when we made the presentation a number of years ago, those who forget the lesson of the past are doomed to repeat the mistakes in the future. I remember when Housing Police was created for one reason only in the early 50s because the constitution of NYPD stated that NYPD cannot patrol individual buildings. So Housing Police was created to patrol individual buildings. This is why they were stationed there. Then they pulled them out and when I ran up with my tenants association, my hand said we could take them to court because they violated their own constitution. They refused. Also, I remember when all housing workers used to live in public housing back in the 50s. Then the law got changed.

At that time, they had a law that said you want to be a city worker, you have to be a city resident. They changed that law under Mayor Wagner. We suggested that concept right there when we made the presentation more than 40 years ago because the only reason why the City is not privatizing NYCHA yet is they do not know what to do with the workforce. We said straight up front we the tenants, a number of people agree with me, take it over and run ourselves. That management office will become our bank and insurance company. Every apartment becomes a share which will eliminate the homeless situation. You will own all the businesses because every housing development has a laundromat which is now closed. I used to manage a laundromat and I know the kind of money that flows through that laundromat which will take care of a whole lot of expenses. Not only that, everybody who works there will live there. You will establish your own school to train your own workforce. The money will stay there and circulate because I look around and see all these job businesses opening up and none of them invest in a public housing development. I say unto you the best thing you can do with public housing right now is turn it over to the tenants to run themselves and the money will stay there and will eliminate a whole lot of homelessness. Why is that? How the heck are you going to build a jail >> 30 seconds to wrap it up, sir.

three blocks from two elementary schools in the midst of at least four public housing developments in the Bronx. You allowed that to materialize. I am glad that vote is gone. But the money needs to be invested in public housing because if the United States or North America can rebuild Europe and Japan after World War II, charity begins at home. They definitely could take that same money under what they call the Marshall Plan and put it right here in New York City because Wall Street is right down the block. You all have a blessed day because the money